[pnathan]

That is a thought experiment, not a citation.

Also, German schooling was famously rigid, and produced a sizable crop of scientists in the 1900-1960 era.

[Fliko]

Actually, German schooling was more famous for it's freedom unlike it's French brother.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_European_research_un...

[pnathan]

Hunh. That is decidedly not the image I had of German schooling. But thank you for the link. It's very interesting.

[Fliko]

Most of the information seems to be stuck in books and harder to find on the internet, I looked for a really long time and that was the best resource I've found so far. It's very possible it's relative to other schooling models.

[forensic]

Your mistake is thinking that school produced those scientists. They produced themselves despite school, not because of it, and they thrived because Germany invested heavily higher education and research. Science in Germany was due to German philosophy, higher education, and lots of funds.

Universities in 1900 are indistinguishable from what we have now. In 1900 they were still targeted at the wealthy and unusually talented. Now they are just extended sunday school. Obedience training for adults.

[pnathan]

Citations, please!

You are saying these things with massive assumptions!

edit for clarification: you are not using any sort of proof mechanism in your statements. No data, no citations.

[forensic]

Wouldn't it be great if you had a personal research assistant who would spend hours looking stuff up for you?

[pnathan]

Wouldn't it be great if you had a conversation with someone who backed up their assertions instead of expecting belief?

[forensic]

I don't expect belief. I expect effort.

I imagine you doing the rounds at dinner parties raising your finger shouting "Citation needed!" over and over again.

Google: gatto, liberal education, conformity, obedience. My argument is a point of view, not a research study.

Gatto cites Dewey, for the record.

[pnathan]

No, I expect the asserter to reference things that back their view up if they want me to believe it. Especially if the view is not obvious and controversial.

If your point of view has no data behind it that you are willing to reference besides a singular biased point of information, then I have no reason to believe you. (Hint, if you are read in an area, it's trivial to reference such things off the top of your head).