[forensic]

I don't expect belief. I expect effort.

I imagine you doing the rounds at dinner parties raising your finger shouting "Citation needed!" over and over again.

Google: gatto, liberal education, conformity, obedience. My argument is a point of view, not a research study.

Gatto cites Dewey, for the record.

[pnathan]

No, I expect the asserter to reference things that back their view up if they want me to believe it. Especially if the view is not obvious and controversial.

If your point of view has no data behind it that you are willing to reference besides a singular biased point of information, then I have no reason to believe you. (Hint, if you are read in an area, it's trivial to reference such things off the top of your head).

[forensic]

The cry for data on a topic like this is pointless. It's a point of view informed by my own experiences and observations as well as reading thousands of philosophers, scientists, educators, theologians, statistics, anecdotes, discussions, and so on.

I'm presenting my synthesized point of view based on a lifetime of contemplation. You're trying to cut it down on the merit of one or two citations.

Read the wikipedia article on "liberal education" and compare it to your experiences at public school. That is my citation.

[pnathan]

> thousands of philosophers, scientists, educators, theologians, statistics, anecdotes, discussions, and so on.

So, how about citing some of them?

I am crying out for data, because only by the truth represented by data can we make informed decisions. All else is blowing in the wind, gibbering tones of madness based on personal biases and opinions.

further edit:

I specifically asked for citations to demonstrate the validity of this claim:

Nobody wants to admit that the concept of "school" itself was designed to church out assembly line slaves. It's not a surprise that when the system is designed to turn humans into robots... that's what you get. Anyone who comes out of school with useful skills does it despite school, not because of school. John Taylor Gatto figured this out years ago.

In particular, this is an assertion of design, ie, that it was designed. I am saying, "Let's have more information", that is, references to thinkers who have advocated the effect of your quote.

Specifically, I am requesting a demonstration, a proof of these (relatively controversial) claims besides mentioning Gatto. You have refused to provide these so far.

This is not a personal opinion position paper I am poking holes in. I am poking at the need for demonstratable truth to your claim.

[nazgulnarsil]

Gatto IS the person who went through and made cites point by point about the education system. people point to him because he did a very good job. Sometimes you have to suck it up and read a book rather than expect people to summarize and rephrase what has already been laid out very nicely.