I'm in a fairly purple state and I don't consider myself a Republican, a Democrat, or even a moderate. I have some views that align with one party and some that align with another.
If anything, the right has largely shifted to the center over the course of my life. For example: they, along with Democrats for quite a while, were opposed to gay marriage. While I'm sure there's still a small contingent that would roll that back if they could it's very much not an issue for the party anymore.
The left, or at least a good portion of the democratic party? They've gone off the rails in the past 10+ years. Everything is now about race or sex. Everything. It's 100% OK to discriminate against white men. We should have open borders. Abortion should be legal up until birth. Prepubescent children should be allowed to go on hormone blockers and get surgery if they think they're trans. Transwomen should be able to compete against women in sports. The Kavanaugh confirmation was a disgusting point in US history. Let's ban guns. The list could go on.
From what I see, Republicans largely want things to stay the same or be rolled back by a decade or so.
> If anything, the right has largely shifted to the center over the course of my life
The Republican party is vastly more anti-abortion and anti-gun control now than in the past. It is mainstream in the GOP to talk about punishing women who get abortions. And in New York, a Republican congressman who said he'd vote for gun control in the wake of a mass shooting in Buffalo, New York, in addition to the one in Texas faced so much backlash from his party he had to quit politics.
I think what you've fallen for is a rhetorical trick Republican politicians use. They say, "Of course Roe vs Wade is settled law." And then they tirelessly work to undermine it, which is exactly what's happening right now.
> From what I see, Republicans largely want things to stay the same or be rolled back by a decade or so.
If what you said is true, the GOP would support the right to abortion and an assault weapons ban. Instead they are rolling back abortion rights by 50 years (Roe was decided in 1973) and expanding the "right" to purchase high powered firearms without background checks and carry them, concealed, without any training, to a degree literally never seen in US history.
> The Republican party is vastly more anti-abortion and anti-gun control now than in the past
The converse of that statement is true too. The Democratic Party is vastly more pro-abortion and pro-gun control than in the past.
The two parties mirror their rhetoric on those two issues intentionally. Its literally impossible for one party to criticize the other on them, as they are both chosen as firebrands issues for their base. So if the GOP moves to the extreme on one, they are the cause for the democrats to move to the opposite extreme on the same issue and vice versa.
It gives me hope that the left is. If the left shifts more central and becomes more palatable to centre right people than the far right, then the right also needs to shift.
but the left didn't shift left in a relevant degree, they are more right then most center parties in the EU.
Its right which shifted so far right that it might seem the left shifted away.
A lot of things coming from the republican party, of bring tolerated by the republican party on recent years are uncanily similar to how Hitler proceeded before he started mass murdering (like in the rethoric of speach and willingness to commit violence etc.)
> but the left didn't shift left in a relevant degree, they are more right then most center parties in the EU.
This is said a lot online, but I'd like some concrete examples. Our abortion laws are (for now) more lax than almost all European countries, and the US left still wants more. Our tax system is more progressive than many European countries, but our rich still need to pay their "fair share." The left in the US wants us to essentially have completely open borders, and there's been a huge pushback to the 'refugees' coming to Europe.
There are some things where we're more right than Europe because Republicans or our constitution won't allow it, but that doesn't mean the American left isn't overwhelmingly quite far left.
And quite frankly, if you're comparing Republicans to Hitler you're too far left yourself to have a balanced perspective. You could just as easily say something like "The way the Democratic party treats white men in recent years is uncannily similar to how Hitler treated Jews..."
> Our abortion laws are (for now) more lax than almost all European countries,
The way it currently looks is the right want to ban abortion no matter what context. Which is far far more strict then most EU countries. And the current legality status is in a legal gray are as far as I know, which is also worse then in many EU countries, through in practice in some states might not. And sure there are EU countries which are also quite far right.
> Our tax system is more progressive than many European countries
Progressive is not the same as left/right. I'm not sure a tax system can be left/right at all. But if we look at the usage of taxes than it's a very clear no.
> but our rich still need to pay their "fair share."
No, not at all. Through sadly that is the case for huge parts of the word.
> The left in the US wants us to essentially have completely open borders, and there's been a huge pushback to the 'refugees' coming to Europe.
The US (and EU) are a major (but not the only) drivers behind the conflicts leading to the refuges...
> The way it currently looks is the right want to ban abortion no matter what context
I will let you in on a little secret. The right doesn't actually want to ban abortions. They need the carrot of banning abortions to turn out voters, and abortion is a very powerful single issue. By this I mean, there are plenty of left-leaning folks who would abandon Bernie if he came out as anti-abortion, and there are plenty on the right who would turn on their candidates if they came out pro-choice.
By the same token, the left also needs the right to keep wanting to ban abortions (but failing) so they can turn out the vote. It isn't as binary as it seems.
> The way it currently looks is the right want to ban abortion no matter what context.
While it's true that some republican run states are going this direction. If we look at the original case that will likely lead the SC to overturn Roe v Wade (again, it hasn't even happened yet), would be a European style ban, where abortion is allowed up until 15 weeks (this is a typical European cutoff). I believe the Mississippi law also has exceptions based on maternal health or fetal disability, which in countries like Germany, would actually require government approval in the late second and third trimester [1]. After the Roe v Wade leak, only a few GOP states have attempted to ban abortion outright. Popular GOP governors like Ron Desantis, whose name keeps coming up for 2024, signed a Mississippi style 15-week ban in Florida, instead of a full on ban.
So, while it's certainly true same in the party want a 100% ban, it's also true that the mainstream ones (again, DeSantis is extremely popular, so is a good indicator of 'centrist' republican thought) are not going that direction and instead making our laws more similar to Western European countries.
>This is said a lot online, but I'd like some concrete examples.
I think that really depends on which policies you're considering to determine how liberal or conservative a country is.
If you're looking at things like Universal Healthcare, Reproductive Rights (which you mentioned, interestingly- but skirted over the fact that they are likely being rolled back to being illegal at any stage past fertilization in many states- much more conservative than other countries), College tuition, universal basic income or workers rights, the US is objectively conservative.
You should probably read some different news sources.
The right hasn’t changed much other than they care less about religion/morality than before.
I’d say leftists tend to be more authoritarian and less liberal in general than the right. Though the right is also full of the authoritarians who just want it for their side.
What the political leaders love is when all the problems are because of the other side. Two wings one bird though.
BS. I have never seen anything like Trump’s attempt to “find” votes and install his own electors, with most of the party (implicitly or explicitly) standing behind him, in my political life.
If this is what you believe (and not just rhetoric you're employing to sway people that you know to be untrue) then maybe it's time to take a step back and widen your world view and broaden your sources of information.
It's of course always problematic to oversimplify the thousands of different issues and perspectives into simple "left vs right" or "conservative vs liberal" buckets, but overall, it's completely accurate to say that America has moved massively to the left, or alternatively, that liberals have been winning for decades.
The right-wing ideals of individual liberty & responsibility, of meritocracy and free choice have been completely obliterated from academia, media and public opinion. The entire narrative is owned and controlled by a left-wing view of race-based collective groups (which would have be class-based in Europe, but American left focuses more on race than class), along with an assumption that luck or privilege is the sole or at least primary driver of inequality.
On essentially every issue the left has not just won, but moved the goal posts of debate. You may just not notice it because you either agree with the moves or because which issues get focus aren't the ones you care about. The American left is doing little to solve climate change, pollution, affordability of middle class lifestyle, etc, but that's because they don't "really" care about those issues. They're winning on LGBTQ+, winning on race-based initiatives, winning on government-controlled access to healthcare, winning on federal power expanding and state power receding, winning on narrowing free speech, winning on reducing religious freedoms and winning on government-controlled land use, government-controlled economy, etc.
I was a left-wing radical in college. Without really changing my stances since then, I'm now a left-wing radical on only environmental issues but basically a centrist on others and occasionally on issues of free speech or free association it's only the right defending those freedoms.
> winning on federal power expanding and state power receding, winning on narrowing free speech, winning on reducing religious freedoms
With the current supreme court? This is incredible! Federal power has been in decline for a decade (and really since like the 40s/50s with the good exception of incorporation), there's been no reduction in religious freedom in decades, even when it conflicts with civil rights, and free speech remains strongly protected at the federal level, though republican governor's keep trying to change that!
In the Bay Area, slavery is taught to kindergartners. People on the left never believe me. I almost cried when my niece said that people like her used own people like her uncle/cousin. What a way to seed racism…
Because the left has gone so far left that everyone looks like they are far right comparatively. So by having the left come more towards the center, the whole political spectrum would shrink back towards the middle.
Abortion is about to become illegal in almost half the country, police departments overwhelmingly haven't been defunded, congress didn't pass an infrastructure bill, the federal minimum wage is still $7.25, there's still been no repercussions for 1/6, trans kids can't get proper healthcare in 2 republican States (and growing), there's no universal healthcare or student debt forgiveness, and there's still no meaningful gun reform.
Your claim that the left has gone "so far left that everyone looks like they are far right comparatively" is detached from reality.
>Abortion is about to become illegal in almost half the country
A Supreme Court decision reversing one that was dubiously made in the first place. It'll be interesting to see how many of those states will roll back abortion from being illegal to something more reasonable.
>Police departments overwhelmingly haven't been defunded
An incredibly far left idea
>Congress didn't pass an infrastructure bill
It's pretty far left to say we need to spend trillions on new projects at a time with high inflation and a shortage of workers
>The federal minimum wage is still $7.25
Which we found out is largely inconsequential in a time when McDonalds is advertising $17 an hour.
>There's still been no repercussions for 1/6
Some people are going to prison for the riot. What other repercussions should there be?
>Trans kids can't get proper healthcare in 2 republican States (and growing)
Alternatively, two states are protecting children before they have the capacity to make completely life altering decisions.
>There's no universal healthcare or student debt forgiveness
Student debt forgiveness is an incredibly far left idea
>And there's still no meaningful gun reform
Most of things you listed, like this one, are things that the left wants shifted to the left. The whole point is that the left has shifted left, and pointing out that things that they want haven't been accomplished doesn't dispute that. It just means the right has been fighting to maintain the status quo - and certainly doesn't show that they've shifted right.
> Student debt forgiveness is an incredibly far left idea
Student debt forgiveness is an incredibly aristocratic idea by which the slowly establishing american aristocracy seeks to tax peasants for their failed lavish lifestyles. It's not 'far left', and it shows just how duplicitous the supposed 'left' in this country has gotten. They're openly advocating for wealth transfers from the poor to the rich, and are attempting to portray themselves as the sole party of empathy, working class sympathies, etc. It's really something to watch from the outside.
Does someone want to explain to me how a recall vote in San Francisco is supposed to punish radical Leftists who hold no elected office, refuse affiliation with a mainstream political party, and basically function solely to organize protests/pickets outside the offices of actual politicians?
"the left has gone so far left that everyone looks like they are far right comparatively."
When people say stuff like this I wonder what planet they're from.
It's not like the US even has a viable Socialist party, never mind a Marxist or Communist one.
I've never heard a Democrat call for the abolishment of private property or a revolution of the proletariat. In America, dreams of that sort died with end of the 60's and 70s with the destruction of the Weather Underground, the assassinations of MLK, Malcolm X, and RFK, the neutering of unions and the labor movement. The rise to power of Reaganism in the 80s and the switch of former leftists to Neo Cons sealed the left's fate.
Now pretty much everyone in America in any position of power (Republican or Democrat) is pretty solidly capitalist, which isn't exactly a far left position. Most of the leaders are also pretty pro-war and happy to support the military-industrial complex, which are not traditionally leftist positions in the US.
Republicans, on the other hand, have called for revolution, and some have even acted on it. The major terrorist attacks on America since Timothy McVeigh have come from the right (which includes not only "patriot" and "militia" groups and the "lone nut" inspired by the endless hatred and calls for violence on conservative talk radio, but also Muslim fundamenalists, who themselves are pretty right wing and have much more in common with right wing extremists because of their anti-women, anti-progress, and theocratic views than with the left).
The left in America is a complete joke when you compare it to how strong it is in Europe, where you can actually find viable openly Socialist and Communist parties, very strong unions, and solid social safety nets. What passes for the "left" in the US would be considered right wing there.
The only thing remotely left wing that I can see in mainstream American politics today is support for abortion and tolerance of minorities and people of different sexual identities/orientations. While important, that's a pretty small ledge for the left to stand on.
Today’s focus on equity indeed fits many, many definitions of far left: radical abolition of class. But if you restrict far left to abolishing private property, then sure.
That’s really just not true overall. Bernie Sanders policies would be considered far left by even European standards, and he almost won the nomination. The abortion and social justice positions are also far left compared to Europe
Which policies do you mean exactly? Because I don't see anything on first glance or from memory that wouldn't be at home at your typical center-left social democrat party here in Europe.
So hurray, people learned from the horrors of the 20th century that socialism inevitably leads to rampant corruption, suffering and genocide? Socialism caused 100 deaths for every death the Nazis caused, I don't understand how we don't see someone advocating for it as equally appalling to someone making pro-Nazi statements.
Whether you look at the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Yugoslavia, Venezuela, anywhere in Africa, you inevitably find that socialism brought horrific suffering, extreme poverty and widespread death. It doesn't matter whether the country is big or small, has lots of natural resources or none, is ethnically diverse or homogeneous, in literally every single data point we have, the empirical truth is clear, that private property and competitive businesses create better outcomes than centralized socialist systems.
Good start mixing together communism with socialism (which can nicely coexist with capitalism).
And then let me add a nice data point that won't fit your nice narrative: Sweden.
While not quite as socialist nowadays compared to maybe in the sixties, but it is still quite a lot more socialist than the US and is actually a pretty decent country to live and work in.
That's a nice point. Some people in the U.S. do need to be constantly reminded that "Socialism with Scandinavian Characteristics" is not authoritarian or anti-capitalist at all! But that's more like the exception that proves the rule.
Sweden has welfare benefits slightly more titled in favor of the benefit receivers relative to the US. California unemployment lasts 26 weeks (182 days) compared to Sweden's 300 days. The USA provides free education from K-12, and then subsidized post-secondary education. Sweden provides citizens free tuition through college (international students pay similar tuition to American universities).
Everything a Swedish citizen might receive from the government, an American would have an analogous program, it just might have a lower payout, shorter duration or have more bureaucratic hassles to get. But it's not like these are fundamentally different systems, they're the same system with some numbers tweaked.
Just for an additional perspective, for most of the world's democracies both the US republicans and democrats are very much on the right-wing side of the political spectrum.
I am not saying there is anything wrong with American Democrats but if you look at actual policies they would be labeled centre right anywhere else in the world.
As an American friend once put it to me "Americans believe luck is made, so social handouts are basically perceived as tax payer theft".
The tyranny of the French National Assembly’s seating chart continues!
I’m just going to say it: the perception of where the American Democratic Party or the American Republican Party sits only matters to American voters. To whatever extent it interests foreigners, I’m happy to provide the entertainment as I take plenty of entertainment watching foreign politics myself, so fair is fair, but an outside observation of where we sit politically isn’t an actionable or useful observation because we’re not those other countries.
That isn’t to say there isn’t anything to be learned from the actions of other governments, whatever their domestic political makeup, but I am happy that if this were 1792 neither major American 2022 political party would be perceived to be getting buddy-buddy with the left of the French National Assembly. Actually gives me some hope for my country to think of it that way.
> Just for an additional perspective, for most of the world's democracies both the US republicans and democrats are very much on the right-wing side of the political spectrum.
I hear this a lot, but as someone who's fairly up on politics in a few Western European countries I don't think it's accurate.
For example, the current democratic party platform supports universal healthcare, mass immigration with a roadmap to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, expansion of visas and a removal of wealth/income requirements, a major commitment to environmental protection and an acknowledgement of climate change including getting to net-zero emissions and devoting tens of billions to foreign aid.
That's all pretty in-line with left wing political manifestos/platforms in most of western europe.
It is a matter of baseline. Comparing to classical liberals (right wing), everyone today is very left. Comparing to Western Europe, that is very left, someone less to the left is relatively to the right, but it does not make it a right-wing, just a more moderate left. It's all about where you set the reference point, at the classical political left-right center or at the current one. The world is continuously moving left for 150 years.
>the world's democracies both the US republicans and democrats are very much on the right-wing side of the political spectrum
Not in terms of social policies. How many European centre-left policies support giving puberty blockers to children? How many European centre-left policies support abortion right up to the time of birth?
Depends on how you define support. Legal for medical professionals to prescribe to children? If so, then quite a few EU countries do support that (with varying requirements of course).
And the recently introduced abortion bill by the Democrats which ultimately failed, does not match what you are saying (time limited by viability and exception for life-saving measures). It however matches roughly the (varying) standards in the various EU countries.
So both not really examples where the Democrats vary greatly from the average in the EU.