[mountainriver]

That’s really just not true overall. Bernie Sanders policies would be considered far left by even European standards, and he almost won the nomination. The abortion and social justice positions are also far left compared to Europe

[welterde]

Which policies do you mean exactly? Because I don't see anything on first glance or from memory that wouldn't be at home at your typical center-left social democrat party here in Europe.

[mountainriver]

Sorry for the Quora link but it has a pretty good overview https://qr.ae/pvFQkJ This also doesn't cover his free housing plan which is very left.

On abortion https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/05/06/abortion-acces...

Also the current views of liberals on race and gender are far left by European standards

Totally get that we currently have a significantly smaller welfare state though.

[welterde]

That summary on Quora is pretty decent and supports my statement of center-left positioning and that social democrats are probably the closest match. Some things like free tuition, free school meals are not really far left, but center-left at most. Some things like improving the voting system are not really applicable here, since we have somewhat less problematic voting systems compared to US. Other things like holding big tech accountable is less obviously placed, since it kinda has support and opposition from both ends of the spectrum.

Not sure what your point about abortion is, but kinda seems to me like that is mostly aligned with Europe too? And neither are race and gender issues far-left issues here, but that's also more centrist and only the far-right really fighting against it (depending on what is meant exactly.. kinda broad topic).

[mountainriver]

We are pretty far left on abortion, Roe v. Wade is much more permissive than most European countries.

Race and gender in modern far left US views is also far left by Europes standards and the US is actually leading the way in this regard.

Europe is just way further along on the welfare state than we currently are, but thats only one aspect of liberalism

[tyrolen]

The US might be leading the way, but hopefully other countries won't be following. Redefining what it means to be a woman or a man (or neither, somehow) in terms of gender stereotypes is an awfully regressive idea. And the US obsession with the identity politics of race, sexuality, gender identity, etc. at the expense of class solidarity has been a disaster for the left.

[welterde]

You are aware that even with Roe v. Wade there is still considerable variation in laws between the states? And I wouldn't say that the limits set by Roe v. Wade are at all very permissive compared to most European countries. Neither was the law recently suggested by the Democrats. And keep in mind that the ruling and the suggested law only restricted the limits the states could impose, the states themselves could still decide to be more permissive than that - and that maybe that's where that impression comes from.

I disagree that race and gender is a far left thing here. Of course you never really defined what you meant exactly here.

[mountainriver]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/22/upshot/abortion-us-roe-gl...

"With Roe in place, the United States has also been an international outlier on abortion rights, but in the other direction. Few countries allow abortion without restriction until fetal viability, the cutoff set by Roe v. Wade half a century ago — currently around 23 weeks, because of medical advances. That makes the United States one of just over a dozen countries that allow abortions for any reason beyond 15 weeks of pregnancy"

The far left's views of removing all ties to past racial discrimination, redefining the narrative of how the US is was formed, is extremely racially progressive and rarely seen in Europe.