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by cletus 1515 days ago
So I really like mechanical watches but I've kind of lost interest because it's nigh-on impossible to buy anything new (unless you're a high net worth individual) and the secondary market is utterly insane.

Example: Rolex Daytona in steel retails for ~$13,000. You can buy that from the store and immediately sell it on the secondary market for $30,000+. The Patel Phillippe Nautilus 5711A is similar ($25-30,000 retail, $75,000+ secondary).

As it happens when the current Rolex Daytona came out a few years ago the market wasn't anywhere near as hot and the market was flooded with people flipping the old model for the new. I happened to buy one of the old Daytonas for $10,000. Last time I checked it sells on the secondary market for $35,000. It's nuts.

For anyone who is interested in this, the plae I would start is with only these two brands: Rolex (first) and Patel Phillippe (second). They completely dominate any sort of demand and have a healthy secondary market. With vintage watches you get into all sorts of weird preferences that make massive differences in value and some of those details can be pretty minor (eg rail dials [1]). Some go for astronomical prices, most notably the Paul Newman Daytonas [2], which are funny because when they were production watches they typically sat on shelves for years because no one wanted them.

It's a fascinating world because what you discover is that Rolex are absolute masters of brand management. Like they are absolutely second to none. Omega, for example, produces some high quality watches, sometimes much better than the Rolex equivalent from a pure utility POV (eg Planet Ocean over DSSD). But Omega produces too many watches and too many models. Rolex quite famously has very limited product lines, which is fantastic for a secondary market. Rolex watches really are almost as liquid as cash.

The other interesting thing is you get into the pedigree and history of each of these watches. For example, GMT watches came about in the 1960s to solve a need as pilots started crossing time zones. The Daytona was for race car drivers. Submariners were (and are) for divers. Sure they'r emore of a fashion item now but the history is fascinating.

[1]: https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-blog/resources/rolex-rail-...

[2]: https://www.bobswatches.com/paul-newman-rolex-daytona

4 comments

Some go for astronomical prices, most notably the Paul Newman Daytonas [2], which are funny because when they were production watches they typically sat on shelves for years because no one wanted them.

There was an episode of Antiques Roadshow where someone brought in one of these in new condition. I think the story was he had purchased it at the military Px in the late 60s and then it ended up in safe deposit box for many decades. When the auction expert told him it was worth $400k he literally fell down in shock.

ETA: $500k. He bought it in the early 70s. https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/tv/2020/01/29/a...

>>So I really like mechanical watches but I've kind of lost interest because it's nigh-on impossible to buy anything new (unless you're a high net worth individual)

As a sanity/reality check, I think we really really need to distinguish "Mechanical Watch" (which can be gotten for as low as $25USD for a crappy cheap but functional and self-winding mechanical piece), and "Rolex" :->

Indeed, many companies serve all kinds of budgets. There is interesting stuff at all prices.
> You can buy that from the store and immediately sell it on the secondary market for $30,000+

This obviously can't be the full story. I'm fairly confident you didn't just discover an infinite money glitch. Whereas if it is what you are describing it that's exactly what it would be.

The issue is supply. It's limited. And of those you can't just walk into a store and buy one. You have to be a valued customer. This typically means buying things that aren't watches that have much higher profit margins (since most ADs are jewelers). Or just being a celebrity or high net worth individual.

Compare the Rolex Cosmograph Daytona new for $14,550 MSRP [1] and used (but unworn) for $42,875 [2].

[1]: https://www.rolex.com/en-us/watches/cosmograph-daytona/m1165...

[2]: https://davidsw.com/shop/watch/rolex/rolex-116500ln-cosmogra...

The problem is that a dealer won’t actually sell you a Rolex unless you’re a repeat customer or you spend an absurd amount on other random jewelry. If you just walk into a Rolex dealership and ask to buy a Submariner, you’ll be put on a list (and you’ll never get a call). If you walk in and spend $100,000 on a diamond bracelet with a large markup and also ask for a Submariner, you might get put somewhat higher on the list. The dealers know the secondary market prices and most will make sure _they_ are getting more or less the same markup even if Rolex won’t let them outright sell at the secondary market prices.
Bulova has dozens of amazing automatic pieces on their site for under $1000, many under $500.