[polotics]

Countries only have "sphere of influence and control" as much as they are able to influence and control. The invasion demonstrated both lack of influence, and lack of control. No NATO missiles were being deployed in Kharkiv that I know, so this was not Cuba. Clearly now my Kharkiv friends want nothing but... If we're lucky we survive the escalation, I call it 50/50 at this point, got the iodine.

[OrvalWintermute]

> No NATO missiles were being deployed in Kharkiv that I know, so this was not Cuba

You must not be counting the thousands of TOW, Stinger, Javelin, and Switchblade Drone/Missiles that NATO is sending to Ukraine.

[polotics]

Sorry I meant proper missiles, like in Cuba, eg. R-12 R-14 (SS-4, SS-5)

[OrvalWintermute]

TOW, Stinger, Javelin, and Switchblade Drone/Missiles are all capable of taking out large commercial airplanes.

TOW 2 are specifically designed to take out buildings in the Bunker Buster variants. Simultaneous release of multiple TOW2s could be used to defeat large industrial buildings, or skyscrapers.

Slovakia has sent an S300 to Ukraine, and those are pretty hefty sized missiles too.

Are you drawing the limit on short range tactical missiles, intermediate range tactical missiles, Cruise Missiles, ICBMs, or Nuclear ICBMs, since we have already established NATO is supplying a number of missile types to Eastern Ukraine?

[polotics]

Super interesting discussion, so sorry I cannot really continue it much!

You mentionned Cuba, so I mentionned Cuba, false equivalence yada yada...

Still, so far the Buk that fools used to down the Malaysia MH17 is the only actual case we're talking about: misguided killings inside the aforementioned "sphere of control", more like sphere of complete corrupt incompetence if you ask me.

All the rest you list is the result of the unprovoked aggression.

So far only Israeli airlines have installed flare decoy systems on commercial transport aircrafts, there are technical issues with downing one of those with what you list though. Let us both hope your theories do not have to get tested.

[OrvalWintermute]

> Still, so far the Buk that fools used to down the Malaysia MH17 is the only actual case we're talking about: misguided killings inside the aforementioned "sphere of control", more like sphere of complete corrupt incompetence if you ask me.

This is what western media would have you believe.

However, the Western Ukrainians have been attacking the Eastern Ukrainians for half a decade now, bombing civilians much of the time.

Similar to what happened with the Buk, is the new Kramatorsk situation.

Western Media reports it as Russians killing Ukrainians https://nypost.com/2022/04/10/liz-cheney-says-ukraine-train-...

Russian Media reports it as Western Ukrainians killing Eastern Ukrainians https://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspots/151053-kramatorsk_ra...

However, we know that Russians claim to be only using Iskandar missiles these days. Iskandars are more powerful, more accurate, and significantly longer range.

An Iskandar is distinguishable via the tail fins https://www.defencetalk.com/military/photos/iskander.46333/f...

Tochka-U missiles don't have tail fins in the same position, as they are more centrally located https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPz-Oy6WYAQ07Ko?format=jpg&name=...

Russians fired a Tochka-U at an exercise in '22, and there is alleged film of a Russian unit having a Tochka-U. Whereas, the Tochka-U is the only Ukrainian missile of the type, as they do not have access to Iskandars

What landed at the Kramatorsk train station was clearly a Tochka-U.

So, I guess it is in the realm of possibility that it was either side.

[polotics]

I was not at all referring to the train station killings, this post of yours looks like a complete copy-paste of pre-cooked trolling content.