[morpheos137]

There is nothing to be baffled about. There was a time when Russia would have gladly joined the EU and or NATO but they were rebuffed. Why? The real reason is Russia united with Europe would enable a true Eurasian competitor to the USA to arise. The subjugation of Europe by the United States seven decades after the 2nd world war is rather pathetic.

After the fall of communism there was a time when western Eurasia could have united. But some people deliberately stoked nationalism (in Yugoslavia, the Baltics, etc) so it was not to be. The war in Ukraine is a late repercussion of this path taken.

The idea that Putin is in it for the money is stupid. When you control a nation state for life money doesn't matter much.

Money is a proxy for power for those lacking real power.

[dmytrish]

"The real reason is Russia united with Europe would enable a true Eurasian competitor to the USA to arise." -- this is plainly ridiculous.

Russia was not able to join the EU at the time due to its oligarchy and systemic corruption, very weak democratic institutions, lack of understanding and enforcement of some basic human rights. It was clearly incompatible with the EU values and has actually severely degraded in that regard since then.

Geopolitics is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

[morpheos137]

"Russia was not able to join the EU at the time due to its oligarchy and systemic corruption, very weak democratic institutions, lack of understanding and enforcement of some basic human rights. It was clearly incompatible with the EU values and has actually severely degraded in that regard since then."

All these apply to an even greater extent in Ukraine.

Propaganda is the succor of dull minds.

[muzika]

Not true. These are not greater in Ukraine.

[type0]

> Why? The real reason is Russia united with Europe would enable a true Eurasian competitor to the USA to arise.

You have to be joking, have you been in Russia and EU countries at the time? Europe an Russia are incompatible always been, always will be. Ukraine is a culturally European country because for centuries it has been egalitarian autonomous and self sufficient, since the times of Ukranian Cossacks. Russia and Muscovy culture is authoritarian, so it's that simple.

[morpheos137]

You have to be joking. Ukraine has existed as a "country" only for a few decades.

The very name means borderland. Pull up a map from 1930 show me the country Ukraine? How about 1830? How about 1730 (then a big part was still under the Turks). How about 1630?

America has existed as a country longer than Odessa has been a city.

[type0]

> Ukraine has existed as a "country" only for a few decades.

So what, Canada only existed as a "country" for a few decades, maybe US military should bomb their cities and take it then.

[Synaesthesia]

The USA certainly tried to, but were rebuffed by the superpower of the time, Britain.

Anyway, back on topic, I don't think the corruption in Ukraine can be denied. Its every hit as bad as in Russia, and it could also be a wealthy country.

It's slightly more democratic than Russia, but only slightly.

[nickpp]

How many distinct leaders in the last 20 years did Ukraine have and how many Russia?

It’s not just "slightly" more democratic.

[Synaesthesia]

How many journalists have been killed? It's actually comparable, as is the level if oligarch dominance of the media and many aspects of life.