[nickspicer1993]

Russia is shelling all major Ukraine cities right now trying to take over a country that does not want it. I am from the UK and if my government were doing this I would gladly welcome sanctions and be outside daily protesting regardless of the consequences, because I know that whatever I would go through it scarcely compares to what civilians of Ukraine would be feeling right now. That's where my humanity would lie personally...

[akg_67]

> I am from the UK and if my government were doing this I would gladly welcome sanctions and be outside daily protesting regardless of the consequences

Selective memory, eh. Iraq and Afghanistan like to have word with you about you going outside daily protesting against your country.

Edit: To add, consider the brutal history of British empire and how they invaded, occupied, and looted a large part of the world.

[hgomersall]

Two million people protested the war in Iraq. It arguably led to Tony Blair's pariah status in UK politics. We're currently going through a cultural admission of collective responsibility for Britain's imperialist past, and it's pissing off many of the right people (the National Trust being the latest targets of the anti-woke brigade).

Let's not get into whataboutery. We all know governments are shit. We shouldn't stop arguing for higher standards just because we've been inadequate in the past.

[akg_67]

"Do as I say and not as I do/did!"

[hgomersall]

Are you suggesting I invaded a sovereign country?

[jollybean]

Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, gassed his own people, and was definitely sitting on piles of WMD's (though not nearly to the extent Bush had us believe).

Afghanis hosted a terrorist group that did 9/11.

So the situations are quite different.

That doesn't necessarily justify invasion of either (but it possibly could) - point being those are not Ukraine analogues.

US invading Canada would probably be a better analogy.

[nickspicer1993]

I did protest those wars.

[krzyk]

Iraq was ruled by a dictator, invading saved more lives than letting him be.

And go look what happens when military was withdrawn from Afghanistan. And see how that country looked in 1960s before the Taliban.

[akg_67]

LOL, just because you don't agree with how a country is ruled, managed and run doesn't give you right to invade and occupy a country.

[krzyk]

Yes,on thenother hand if you could do something like that before September 1939 in Germany or sometime earlier in Russia you could save many lives.

Having a blind eye doesnt solve problems.

[Ygg2]

Iraq instead became part of Islamic State. The state that makes Taliban appear moderate.

[elzbardico]

You really believe this? For real?

[elij]

this situation has truly opened my eyes about how selective the general population (especially in the UK) can be about certain things.

supplying arms and willing civilians to fight a war = bad Russia 2014

supplying arms and willing civilians to fight a war = good Liz Truss (UK Foreign Secretary) 2022 but before 2022 it was bad

*disclaimer -- both bad

We have been told my entire life that boycotting economies is bad (which is what is going on, this isn't just sanctions) and in some situations discrimination (on grounds of race) but now it's ok.

My brain hurts trying to reconcile these positions.

We just need to end this conflict ASAP and it doesn't help promising to speed run UKR into EU and NATO (even if that's the ultimate goal)

[nickspicer1993]

- In 2014 it was bad because the reason was to invade a country that did not want to be invaded

- In 2022 it was good because it was to defend a country from invasion that did not want it

In both cases the underlying reason is the same, defend the will of the people.

What is the underlying argument you are trying to pursue? We should not sanction ordinary Russian people because all governments invade/meddle in other countries not just Russia?

[elij]

I think you're forgetting our history with the first part -- especially within our Isles. This is my issue when we try to be too clever about this.

get around a table and talk it out rather than put Ukrainians and Russians in the firing line in an irreversible way -- while we pontificate from relative comfort in the Europe/US -- no one wins from this fighting

FYI: It was criminal as a Brit to fight against IS (the goal of UK) as a civilian