[purephase]

They're honking for 16-18 hours per day. For people that live near the convoy, they've been able to sleep for over two weeks due to this. I have friends and family affected by this. I'm fairly sure this constitutes torture if you don't have the resources to up and leave your residence for days at a time in order to sleep.

[tablespoon]

> They're honking for 16-18 hours per day. For people that live near the convoy, they've been able to sleep for over two weeks due to this. I have friends and family affected by this. I'm fairly sure this constitutes torture if you don't have the resources to up and leave your residence for days at a time in order to sleep.

Are earplugs not a thing in Canada?

Calling honking torture is ridiculous hyperbole. That word should be reserved for the extremely serious kinds of acts it's normally used to describe, lest it become effectively meaningless.

Words themselves don't have any power, and if you try to harness the power of a concept by misusing a word that refers to it, you just cause the word's definition to shift and to weaken its association to the concept (potentially making that concept much harder to access and refer to).

[throw10920]

I challenge you to find earplugs that can be worn 24h a day without any physical discomfort, provide 60dB of attenuation across a wide range of frequencies (these horns probably span low 100's of Hz to mid kHz), and are reasonably inexpensive.

Even if you could find such beasts (which I don't think you can), then you have the problem that you effectively can't use your hearing. You thought that social interactions were hard with a mask? Imagine not being able to use your hearing at all.

(yes, 60 dB is necessary because that's how much you'll need in order to sleep - the human ear has an incredibly large dynamic range and even 30 dB_SPL conversations are enough to keep some people awake for hours)

As it stands, many of the residents near these protests are being subjected to low-level sleep deprivation, which is literally torture (as in, used as such by organizations who actually want to extract information or confessions from people).

To clarify - it's not honking that's torture, it's sustained honking at a duration and intensity that will cause sleep deprivation and other psychological damage.

Completely independently of the reason that these people are protesting - this particular means is not humane.

[tablespoon]

> I challenge you to find earplugs that can be worn 24h a day without any physical discomfort, provide 60dB of attenuation across a wide range of frequencies (these horns probably span low 100's of Hz to mid kHz), and are reasonably inexpensive.

> Even if you could find such beasts (which I don't think you can), then you have the problem that you effectively can't use your hearing. You thought that social interactions were hard with a mask? Imagine not being able to use your hearing at all.

> (yes, 60 dB is necessary because that's how much you'll need in order to sleep - the human ear has an incredibly large dynamic range and even 30 dB_SPL conversations are enough to keep some people awake for hours)

Per this (https://audiology-web.s3.amazonaws.com/migrated/NoiseChart_P...), 30 dB is rated as a "whisper." This (https://mynewmicrophone.com/what-are-decibels-the-ultimate-g...) calls 30 dB SPL a "Quiet bedroom at night."

It sounds like you're challenging me with overkill requirements meant to totally mute the horns almost like they're not there, when the realistic problem is to reduce the noise to the point where someone could sleep.

I kind of find it hard to believe that's not possible with and indoor location + silicone ear plugs (and maybe white noise if you're very sensitive).

> As it stands, many of the residents near these protests are being subjected to low-level sleep deprivation, which is literally torture (as in, used as such by organizations who actually want to extract information or confessions from people).

Again, calling it "literally torture" is ridiculous hyperbole, or at the very least invokes misleading associations. A noisy neighbor is being annoying to his neighbors, not torturing them.

[dendriti]

What about young children? You have a handwavy method to get a toddler to wear silicone earplugs for 8 hours a night?

Judging by your post history, you seem to be more interested in stirring up shit than actually contributing to the discussion. This bizarre defence of noisemaking jackasses fits with that.

[tablespoon]

> Judging by your post history, you seem to be more interested in stirring up shit than actually contributing to the discussion.

I'm not, and I'm pretty sure your accusation violates site guidelines.

> This bizarre defence of noisemaking jackasses fits with that.

You should note I'm not defending them or their actions. I just think it's ridiculous hyperbole to call what they're doing "literally torture." If the ancestor comment had simply said they were being annoying and disruptive, I wouldn't have responded at all.

[msrenee]

But it is literally a form of torture.

[throw10920]

Yes, 30 dB ambient noise keeps me awake at night - I know this as someone who had a sibling that played video games and very quietly talked into his mic from another room - which wasn't even noticeable during the day, but during the night, I could hear him clearly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_pressure#Examples_of_sou... gives 30 dB as a "very calm room", which is what it was.

Comments elsewhere in the thread cite 120+ dB horns outside and about 80 dB indoors.

80-60=20. Let's say the earplugs only have to be 50 dB (and that the average person can sleep with 30 dB of noise in their ears at night) - I still bet you can't find any that fit the requirements above.

There's no "overkill requirements" - I'm handing you concrete, realistic numbers that are reflective of real life and you're trying to handwave them away.

> A noisy neighbor is being annoying to his neighbors, not torturing them.

You literally didn't read one of the last sentences of my comment - "To clarify - it's not honking that's torture, it's sustained honking at a duration and intensity that will cause sleep deprivation and other psychological damage."

Please read before responding.

[endemic]

Earplugs just deaden sound, they don't eliminate it.

[msrenee]

My work earplugs aren't rated for super high decibels, but they're a step up from the disposable ones most folks I work with use. They're definitely a solid step up from what most folks are going to buy from the hardware store. I've got coworkers who can converse loudly enough that I can make out the entire conversation over the normal shop noise the earplugs are supposed to be for while 200 feet away and within an enclosed (but not particularly thick-walled) office.

Earplugs will dull the noise, but if I can't take a nap over two guys having a conversation at that distance, I really doubt most folks' ability to get a good night's sleep over truck horns. The earplugs will probably mitigate the physical damage done by the noise, but I highly doubt they do much for the psychological stress. People lose their ability to focus and sometimes their sanity due to injuries that cause a constant ringing in their ears. Even if you can reduce the volume, the constant noise is a type of torture.

Edit: Found the Noise Reduction Rating for a number of different types of hearing pro that I've used in the past. The best one was rated at 33, meaning it roughly reduces the noise by something like 33 decibels. That pair, of course, being the ubiquitous neon yellow 3M product with flames on the sides for enhanced performance. I don't wear them myself because while they're fashionable, they're incredibly uncomfortable for me. This also appears to be among the best non-powered hearing pro that's available on the market. They will take an uncomfortably loud worksite at 105 dB down to effectively under 80 dB and more-or-less within a safe range for hearing. Not a pleasant level for sleeping though, by any means, although I can pull it off myself if I'm tired enough. When you start talking about a truck horn which those earplugs might or might not be able to quiet down close to the level of that 105 dB you'd experience with no hearing pro on a worksite, you're past potential hearing damage and well into a range where there is no reasonable escape from the barrage of sound.

Edit 2: Most of these earplugs in the 25-33 NRR range are definitely available at the hardware store if anyone needs to know that. They're more expensive per pair and seem to come in higher count containers, but they're there and much cheaper than the doctor's visits and hearing aids will be in the future. If you find yourself in a situation where the background noise is uncomfortable at all, please, please, get yourself some if at all feasible. Half the old dudes I've worked with in my life did not think it was worth the hassle and I'm tired of having to scream in people's ears to communicate. Also all the near misses because you have to either throw something at them or close the distance if you see a dangerous situation they don't and need to warn them.

[kbelder]

How are the protestors sleeping?

[purephase]

You do know that they're in vehicles that they're moving in and out of the city, correct? It's not like they're all just parked in one spot and staying there the entire time.

Unlike people with fixed addresses, they can just up and move to a quiet part of the city to sleep, and then drive back after.