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by heyrhett 1638 days ago
It's so sad when Twitch streamers with 10,000+ Live viewers are forced to reboot for a Windows update
4 comments

Imagine, after months of work and sleepless nights the day has come, you have to submit your thesis. But during the final corrections your Windows decides to shutdown and update the system for an uncertain duration.

It wasn't my thesis, but I was part of the people that helped to solved the resulting mess (the update took 4 hours and the deadline was 2PM).

That day I learned to never rely on Microsoft ever again.

Do you have a link to a clip of this? I've never had Windows force an update on me. I'm suspecting it's a myth to be busted, but I want to make sure.
Heh you are lucky as hell. I've had it shut down in the middle of a Teams meeting on me for updates.
do you update your linux kernel on the desktop without rebooting?
Kernel updates are not forced like is the case on windows. And yes, linux allows you to update the kernel without rebooting: it's called kernel live patching.
Linux has no mandatory automatic updates in the first place,* so this situation doesn't ever need to take place.

To answer your question, it is possible to update the Linux kernel without rebooting, but you may run into some issues with kernel modules that would be solved with a reboot.

* Edit: After writing this comment, I remembered that Snaps on Linux have automatic updates that can only be deferred up to 90 days. However, Snaps don't handle Linux kernel updates. I don't recommend using Snaps.

> Edit: After writing this comment, I remembered that Snaps on Linux have automatic updates that can only be deferred up to 90 days. However, Snaps don't handle Linux kernel updates. I don't recommend using Snaps.

I didn't even know that. It's one more item on the list of reasons to not use Snaps.

Right? It's like Canonical looked at all the hate Windows was getting and decided they wanted in on that action.

Snaps can kiss my ass.

Since when does Windows have mandatory automatic updates?!
Windows 10 Home used to have mandatory automatic updates:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/window...

The situation improved after the May 2019 update, but the updates will still be automatically installed after you pause them every 7 days for a maximum of 5 times (35 days total):

https://www.howtogeek.com/410183/microsoft-abandons-windows-...

Automatically installed, yet no automatic reboots. Maybe it’s because I’ve never used the Home edition, but I’ve never had Windows force a reboot on me. Sometimes my laptop won’t wake up out of sleep mode and it reboots, but that’s about every 2 months.

The last time I was really angry about Windows was with Window Me. The entire TCP stack took a dive which I couldn’t recover from. Even replaced the NIC. Replaced that with Windows 2000 and haven’t had a serious issue since.

Windows 10 pro also did that. Not sure if it still does, because after it happened to me once I waded into the policy editor and disabled all that shite. However, there was at least one forced update that happened to me after that. No idea why.

But windows is also weird. People always talk about ads or having candy crush forcefully reinstalled after updates. I strongly suspect these things vary by region, because those two at least I never noticed.

Staged Windows updates are a pretty common source of behaviors that do require reboots.

Everything from HID devices not responding, task manager and utilities like Settings not opening, device drivers left in an unstable state, and more can happen. To their credit, it does usually fail in a way that allows users to close applications before they're compelled to restart.

There is a difference between used to and straight away saying, mandatory reboots. Implies it still does.
I’ve had Windows spontaneously restart on me while I’m doing stuff, to apply an update. If it was somehow my fault, I have no idea what caused it, and so it’s Microsoft’s fault after all since it wasn’t clear.
My computer once decided that 1 A.M. in the night is a great time to automagically boot up and do updates. I had to physically turn off power, so it wasn't able to do that. Even disabling that feature in the bios didn't work for some reason. I still don't know how the machine was able to do it. Fast boot wasn't even enabled, because it caused other problems when it was.

It stopped happening someday, but it's still haunting me. It doesn't really build trust.

On Linux, one can instruct the BIOS to turn on the computer at a specified time after suspend or even power off using rtcwake [1]. I don't know many things about Windows but I guess they are doing something like this.

[1] https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/rtcwake.8.html

Since Windows 10. It is possible to disable it, but Microsoft fought very hard to prevent people from doing so by putting up a ton of road blocks. It was a loudly decried 'feature'.
I'm not sure which update exactly - at least a couple of years ago now, but this was removed for regular updates.

You don't get the forced reboot until your version goes EOL - you'd have to ignore updates for years for that.

Edit: it was may 2019 as per another commenter

I've never, over 3 laptops, had it restart by itself. Not once. Not a single one of them on Home edition, so perhaps that's the issue.

Then again, the "home edition" is the edition that you should use when you are streaming live on twitch to 10,000 people!

It’s happened to me on home edition.

If you intentionally restart you computer every week or two it will never happen to you though. Or set your computer up to not do it.

Not mandatory, but the default settings are a bit unfortunate.
I update my Linux systems manually on my schedule, my computer does not decide it wants a reboot right fucking now.
Yes. See Ubuntu Livepatch.
I do not use it on the desktop so I have no idea if that works, I would guess that binary graphics drivers are unpatchable with live patch. I've patched the kernel on servers like that for a long time now, I recommended it warmly no problems so far!
It works the same on desktop as servers. I don't run anything that requires binary graphics drivers though (got far, far away from trying to use Nvidia on Linux many years ago), so I can't speak to that.
Can you update everything else on a Linux box without rebooting?

How does this compare to Windows updates, and how many of them require rebooting?

There is a program called needrestart which you can run after updates to see what needs restarting to load new copies of libraries etc. Generally speaking you only need to actually reboot for kernel updates.

When you update, you update everything - OS and apps all in one go unless you manually install stuff yourself outside of the package manager. Updates take from seconds to a few minutes unless you are running Gentoo in which case its from minutes to days or even weeks whilst your compiler crunches its way through vast seas of source code and you fix the various issues along the way 8)

You can automate the whole thing or not - up to you.

Grandparent was a facetious question intended to deflate the great-grandparent, which suggested that Windows' annoying need to restart for every damn thing was comparable somehow to Linux's update requirements.

Which as parent points out are functionally nonexistent, except for a rare kernel update (and you don't have to restart if your glasses are thick enough to live patch).

I often suggest Manjaro, which is smart enough to do all the updating for you, but is also Arch enough to let you do it all manually.

Maybe this is new in Windows 11, benefit of the doubt and all, but this isn’t a thing on any other versions of Windows. Forced reboots aren’t a thing. Misclicks, however, are.
Windows 10 will definitely update and reboot without the user taking any action.

One thing to remember is that many streamers are using dual-PC setups and the bigger streamers may only run these systems for streaming -- not for personal use.

It's very possible the streamer missed any update nags because they are mainly interfaced with the gaming PC.

And depending on their setup all the user input might be going to the gaming PC and the streaming PC might think it's currently inactive but with a pesky OBS process left running.

> Misclicks, however, are.

Victim blaming once again.

This is a thing on Windows 10, I was watching a video with my sister on the PC running Windows 10 and all of the sudden, it just rebooted into updating Windows.

One thing is that Windows Home does not have an option to postpone or delay updates, this is only for Windows Pro editions. When there is an update, it will start doing it automatically with a timer and it sometimes does not pop up on top of everything you're doing.