[jacquesm]

You're all over this thread with one huge assumption: you have zero knowledge about how that particular set of headphones was treated so far. The charger setup is described but not in a way that I can make sense of it, apparently charging while connected to a computer but using the stock charger, if it was opened up, repaired, had a battery replaced, dropped, otherwise damaged and continued to use. Before you jump to the 'sue', 'recall' and 'Bose sucks' conclusion I would wait for a little bit more data, especially because the other not 99000 but millions of pairs that they have sold have so far not exhibited this tendency.

The flip-side, that Lithium batteries should probably not be present in body worn gear is something that I would subscribe to but at the same time I'm aware of people wearing stuff like that by the 10's of millions in their ears and so far it seems to work well enough that the number of incidents is low and in most cases can be traced back to gross abuse of the devices.

Finally: charging Lithium Ion batteries of any kind is where the risk is, it's always a good idea to charge them in a spot where you can keep an eye on them, and to watch them closely just after you have charged them (especially to full capacity, which I would recommend against) for a little while after because that is when if things go wrong they will go wrong.

[Suchos]

There is a reason I can't use my Sony MDR-1000X when I'm charging them. Good point on the charging danger of batteries.

[jacquesm]

Yes, Sony has this set up the right way, the headphones simply stop working when charging. They also have some pretty good undervoltage protection in there that keeps the batteries at a safe voltage until they are charged again.

That said: it is still body worn lithium ion tech and you should definitely be careful with them, especially if you ever suspect they may have become damaged (from dropping or impact). Be nice to your headphones. And never ever leave them hooked up to the charger once they are charged and if you can only charge to 90% or so.

[romwell]

>You're all over this thread with one huge assumption: you have zero knowledge about how that particular set of headphones was treated so far.

What's the assumption? Based on information given, the headphones exploded during normal operation, and have been previously treated well[2].

The OP is commenting in this thread. If you think they are misleading us, go ask them[2].

Further, nothing in the official documentation for the product[1] indicates the possibility of fire and chemical burns during normal operation, regardless of how they have been treated so far.

> Before you jump to the 'sue', 'recall' and 'Bose sucks' conclusion

It seems to me that you are jumping to these conclusions.

My conclusions are:

1) Bose QC-35 II headphones are a hazardous product that can spontaneously burst into flames and cause chemical burns while being operated according to the manual

2) This product does not come with any warnings that this is a possibility, while, according to comments here, hazards of the battery used are common knowledge among engineers

3) The product's manual instructs the user to take the headphones off if they experience a "warming sensation", indicating that the engineers were aware of the risks, but neither the risks nor mitigation were not described in the instruction manual (compare this with the labels on something as common as epoxy resin)

4) The OP should report this incident to CPSC, since this is the body responsible for keeping track of such incidents and that will be able to act upon them if there's a pattern of them happening

5) The medical injuries sustained by the OP are unacceptable; and at the very least, Bose should pay for the medical treatment and resulting productivity loss.

As you said, this shouldn't be a big deal for Bose if this is a one-off freak accident. And if it's a systemic issue, it better become a big deal.

Finally: I have a Bose speaker. I have no idea what kind of battery is inside it, but all I know is that the manual didn't instruct me to take the precautions that you just listed:

> charging Lithium Ion batteries of any kind is where the risk is, it's always a good idea to charge them in a spot where you can keep an eye on them, and to watch them closely just after you have charged them (especially to full capacity, which I would recommend against) for a little while after because that is when if things go wrong they will go wrong.

Bose Soundlink speakers are designed to sit at a dock, where they are continuously charged. The later models don't even have an off switch.

So I'm all over the thread with one huge assumption: that any reasonable person would agree with my points 1-5 above.

Sadly, this assumption has been repeatedly proven wrong.

[1]https://assets.bose.com/content/dam/Bose_DAM/Web/consumer_el...

[2]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29602376

[GavinMcG]

> this shouldn't be a big deal for Bose if this is a one-off freak accident. And if it's a systemic issue, it better become a big deal.

You're spamming the thread with dramatic comments that are premised on this not being a one-off freak accident. Nice of you to finally acknowledge the possibility.

[romwell]

> You're spamming the thread with dramatic comments that are premised on this not being a one-off freak accident

My bad. I've been led to believe that the batteries in these headphones are inherently dangerous and that the OP should have known better by the commenters that defend Bose elsewhere in the thread:

>In the end you're carrying a high energy density power source on your head that would love to just catch fire. Don't they teach kids anything in chemistry these days?

>I mean I’m glad it didn’t happen to me, but a billion people are carrying around billions of Lithium-ion batteries. Those batteries sometimes catch fire because Lithium is highly flammable. It’s gonna happen.

>Nothing is perfectly safe, that is how lithium batteries fail. You should know so you can properly deal with problems.

>Well, at lease EVs are spontaneously catching fire.

>Everyone is aware of the risks, there were a bunch of stories about airplane cell phone fires a few years ago.

>lithium battery fires are really nasty, and that's why he got a chemical burn. LiPF6 is a contact irritant, PF5 it decomposes to is a gas, and also a respiratory irritant, and HF PH5 decomposes in the air is a dangerous poisonous acid. This is what everybody visiting a lithium battery factory is told on safety orientation. In case there is fire in the factory, run, preferably until you are few blocks away.

Combining this, we have on our hands an inevitable freak accident that every consumer should be prepared for, but no manufacturer can expect to happen or do anything to mitigate the damage.

Got it.

[GavinMcG]

I'm talking about your rhetorical strategy. You've got a reasonable view, and you're being ineffective in advancing it.

[romwell]

My rhetorical strategy resulted in the OP filing the report with the CPSC.

As far as strategy goes, mission accomplished. The purpose of further discussion is that I enjoy it; these are not the views I thought needed to be advanced on the account of being self-evident.

I am very disappointed that this is not the case.

[GavinMcG]

You've continued well after you prompted a CPSC report. I'd hope that one purpose of further discussion is benefit to the rest of the community, rather than being solely for your enjoyment. I'm sorry that's disappointing to you.

[jacquesm]

Ok, good luck with that. After 55 or so comments out of a total of 330 in this thread I think your endless repetitions of the same bits don't contribute but just detract, there is some good that can come of this but not by this ridiculous stream of unsupported assertions.

Once more: you do not know what that set of headphones have gone through and you do not know the finer details of the charging setup. Both of these matter enormously and until that data is available anything you add to it in terms of conclusions is speculative.

For some reason you seem to be either in a panic or overreacting but this whole thread isn't even about you. So why the over the top responses, including suggesting that something exploded, that this is a systemic issue, that somebody died and so on, it makes no sense to me. Count to ten and relax, the world will continue to turn even if one Bose set of headphones came to a bad end (which is all the evidence we seem to have) and let's learn what we can from this instance to ensure that if (which we do not know for sure) there is a quality control or a design issue that it gets found.

And that's not just because of Bose but also because of the 10's of millions of other devices using similar setups.

As for the warning: that warning applies to any device that contains rechargeable lithium ion batteries. Shape change or warming up when they shouldn't be is a very strong indicator you have a problem that is about to get a lot worse. Not having that warning in their manual would have been irresponsible, of course Bose - and every other LiIon powered device manufacturer) is aware of that and instructs their customers accordingly.

Not that anybody ever reads the instructions. And if they did I'll bet that people would not be so happy with Lithium Ion any more. But after having used a couple of hundred cells in various shapes and sizes and advising on the way a certain piece of consumer electronics was put together (wearable, LiIon powered) I think I have a reasonably good idea of what it takes to get one of these cells to misbehave and my list of suspects would be, in order:

- charging circuitry

- impact or drop damage

- cell piercing

- repair gone bad (either of the headphones or of the charging circuitry)

- temperature damage / operating / charging outside of allowed temperature envelope (charging circuitry should protect against this)

and finally

- manufacturing defect (either at Bose, or their supplier) implying at least a quality control issue at Bose

- design error

You seem to jump to 'structural manufacturing defect' as your conclusion without having the required data to establish that that is indeed what happened here.

[romwell]

>Ok, good luck with that. After 30 or so comments I think your endless repetitions of the same bits don't contribute but just detract

Repetition, my friend, is the mother of learning.

My comments resulted in the OP reporting the incident to the CPSC[1]. That's my contribution.

The rest is pure fun.

>Not having that warning in their manual would have been irresponsible, of course Bose - and every other LiIon powered device manufacturer) is aware of that and instructs their customers accordingly.

OK, let's just focus on that one word: irresponsible.

Count to ten, and quote me the warning from the manual that would indicate that OP's experience is a possibility.

(It's not there. Bose was, as you said, irresponsible, and there is only one way to force companies to be responsible in the US).

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29602614

[jacquesm]

You're not the OP, you are monopolizing this thread with more bits than you'd normally have a right to, I suggest - mildly - that you reconsider whether or not you think this is a proportional response to something that does not concern you directly or that it is possible that you are over-reacting. And finally, whether the point that you are ineffectively trying to make is served by this behavior.