[sarosh]

An interesting take from Mike Pondsmith given his heavy involvement in the venture at the end of (at least in my opinion) well-written article: "[C]omparing the tabletop experience with its video-game incarnation, he noted that the latter doesn’t really compare to the former when it comes to self-expression. “You could be you in a tabletop game and bring all the stuff that you wanted to bring into it,” he said. “A tabletop game is limitless. A video game, by its very nature of how it’s designed, has some limits.” "

[protomyth]

True, but to be honest, CyberPunk itself was a problematic RPG for a number of reasons. It was deadly beyond most RPGs (well, except for Call of Cthulhu), and one of the archetypes was called a Solo which didn't lend itself to group play. Maybe it is actually a game better suited to a video game.

On a side note, if you can get the CyberPunk 2020, it will give you a chuckle on the tech comparison with the real world. I think it fits into the Cassette Punk genre.

[jltsiren]

Deadly combat was popular in most RPGs in the late 80s and early 90s. Even experienced characters could easily die from bad luck or poor judgment, and if wounds didn't kill them, infections might. The focus was more on role-playing (and a kind of realism), and combat was not supposed to be something you enter casually.

As far I remember, the problematic role was always the Netrunner, not the Solo. While the Solo was just your standard warrior, the Netrunner played their own subgame while everyone else was waiting.

[e12e]

The only major problem for group play in cyberpunk 2020 was the net running rules, due to the time dilletation (an hour long netrunning game session would zip by in a handful of combat rounds - meaning you couldn't really use the rules to do a break-in supported by a netrunner (like the tessier-asphol run from Neuromancer)).

You could of course work around it like with all flaky rule systems - make stuff up, and try for reasonable balance/spotlight among the group. But the solo ("fighter") might be one easiest roles for group dynamics (eg the nomad is likely to be more occupied with pack/tribe/clan matters than group - assuming not all players are nomads/part of the pack..).

In general I'd say cp2020 is quite typical for "mature" systems - it works well for stories/groups where everyone is content getting their fair share of the spotlight, and enjoy a bit of intrigue, conflict and backstabbing...

[theshrike79]

Solo lends itself to group play just fine.

Just because your D&D character's class is "Fighter", it doesn't mean they need to fight everyone they meet :D

Solo is just the asskicker class of CP2020

Source: Played CP2020 in the previous millennium a bunch.

[willis936]

Tabletop also has limits, otherwise it wouldn't have any rules. By this logic pretend play is the ultimate game but good luck finding a willing player over 12.

[friedman23]

> pretend play is the ultimate game but good luck finding a willing player over 12.

What do you think improv is? And pen and paper RPGs are a form of improv constrained by some rules. But those rules are what people agree for them to be and you can make them as restrictive or as loose as you can agree to.

[willis936]

My point is that taking it to the extreme then stopping at tabletop as the natural best is nonsense. Tabletop has rules. If rules are the enemy then tabletop is not the ultimate. People enjoy frameworks. On one end of the spectrum is pretend play and on the other is a movie theatre. What spectrum of interactive entertainment you want to participate in is purely subjective and one is not "better" than another. Having fewer limits is not a virtue. It is worth nothing.

[tormeh]

Most TTRPG groups ignore rules. The DM almost always fudges things behind the scenes and rule-of-cools stuff. The only rules in TTRPGs are what the DM decides. The books are just guidelines.

[tsimionescu]

I think tabletop came up here because it's the origin of Cyberpunk 2077, not because it is somehow the ultimate form of interactive entertainment. That last line is just claiming that Cyberpunk 2077 ultimately worked better as a tabletop game than a video game.

Mind you, I don't necessarily agree, but I also don't think it's such a grandiose claim.

[dragonwriter]

> Tabletop also has limits, otherwise it wouldn't have any rules. By this logic pretend play is the ultimate game but good luck finding a willing player over 12.

TTRPGs are group pretend play with (a wide variety of differe r styles of) dispute resolution systems and supporting guidance.

[debugnik]

Many play-by-post RPGs are more focused on developing a shared narrative than in game mechanics, so they become precisely that: pretend play with few restrictions. These were popular as internet forums about 10 years ago (I think people now play these on Discord) and I met a few players over 30 back then.

[webwielder2]

Not all of us have held onto our childlike wonder and imagination, so it's nice to have graphics I must admit.