[dylanbfox]

I agree with all your points - but one thing I think about is: how do we fix what we have today? How do you fix the concrete jungles that most cities are today in the US. Or is it inevitable that more concrete will just be poured over time until some major natural disaster allows for a reset?

[DoreenMichele]

The Netherlands has reversed course from a car-centric culture to a more pedestrian- and bike-friendly culture. They did that very intentionally. As far as I can tell, there is no magic about it being The Netherlands -- except possibly the influence on the culture of the polder.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polder

From what I gather, protecting the polder so everyone survives is so important that it has, at times, required people at war to cooperate in keeping the water out.

Today, globally, everyone knows we need solutions here or we are all doomed. We can stop quibbling about what various factions want for personal gain and start seeking answers that help some group live lighter on the land so we all benefit.

Rinse and repeat.

Start with low-hanging fruit. As that gets done, other things will become more reachable.

[GekkePrutser]

I think the Netherlands is still one of the more car-centric cultures in Europe though. And I've lived in several countries. Perhaps the inner cities aren't, but outside of them it's very hard to do without a car.

In many small villages/towns there is only a bus service during peak hours now. When I visit it's really a royal pain (and taxies are unaffordable as an alternative). And when you work in the Netherlands you're usually required to work nationwide which means countless hours in the car visiting clients. Public transport takes several times as long as car travel.

I really hated it when I worked there (I'm from there as you might have guessed). All these hours driving in frantic traffic were so stressful. I work in Barcelona now where public transport is much better (rural is still worse than inner-city but both are much better than the Netherlands' services). It's the first place I've lived where I genuinely don't need a car, it would only be a burden to me. Time between metros is counted in seconds and the network is so big. As well as that there's buses and trams and regional trains passing through that can be used to hop from one side of the city to the other.

The only thing that's genuinely better in the Netherlands is the bike lane network IMO :) That really is amazing. But I just don't see the feasibility of doing without a car completely there.

[TacticalCoder]

> I work in Barcelona now where public transport is much better...

Barcelona is one of the most stressful, if not the most stressful city, to use public transport in in Europe. If anything it should serve as an example for other cities as to what to not do. Public transports are full of thieves and scammers. It is simply beyond belief. It is known that if you ever dare to retaliate when you catch people stealing you, it can quickly degenerate very badly... For you.

I don't want to hear the typical: "If you look like a local and know what not to do, you'll be fine". I want public transports to be very safe otherwise I won't use them.

Several people mentioned Tokyo already: I spent close to a year there. Now that is a city with working and safe public transports.

[GekkePrutser]

Yes Barcelona has a big problem with pickpockets indeed. This is more of a legal issue: any theft of 400 euro or less is punishable by a fine only even if it's the 4000th time.

Because of this there's gangs of professional pickpockets. But they're trained to avoid conflict. Because any violence will incur serious charges. I've grabbed one once and pushed him against a wall when I felt him reaching for my phone and he literally was passive and relaxed. Just dropped the phone and strolled off. No way someone behaves like that unless they have trained it.

So yes they're an absolute plague but the risk of violence is low. And the cause does not have much to do with public transport (it happens on the street too) but with ignorant lawmakers :)

[krageon]

> Public transports are full of thieves and scammers

This is true in the overwhelming majority of public transport around the world.

> Several people mentioned Tokyo

Yes, Japan is one of the safest nations in this regard. That's cool, but definitely not achievable everywhere because it is due to a lot of environmental factors (like the culture and the incredible conviction rates).

[DoreenMichele]

I think your argument only strengthens mine. It sounds like you are saying "The Netherlands was kind of the America of Europe in terms of being crazy car-centric and they sucked so much worse than they do currently."

To which I say "So you're telling me if they can become the global poster child for doing this better, anyone can do this better -- even the US."

[GekkePrutser]

Well, I don't know how much they suck now as I've left 10 years ago, but I know pre-corona there were many cases of the largest traffic jams ever reported in the news, almost weekly :)

When I was there these numbers were much lower despite the A2 being a horrible ever-changing construction site. And it was already so frustrating I once broke my teeth just from grinding it :(

At the same time even the frequent train routes were apparently really overcrowded. Everything is different now with Corona of course but that's worldwide.

[dylan604]

It also helps that the country is old enough to have developed before the automobile. Kinda hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube when you've designed entire cities around support the automobile.

[occz]

>It also helps that the country is old enough to have developed before the automobile. Kinda hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube when you've designed entire cities around support the automobile.

I think this is a misconception for sure - the netherlands used to have much more car-oriented development but saw the issues with it and started retrofitting their built environments.

The same goes for the U.S in reverse, actually, with a lot of cities not having been designed with the car in mind and then subsequently having been demolished and retrofitted for the car. The transition is totally possible to do in both directions.

[unmole]

> As far as I can tell, there is no magic about it being The Netherlands

While not quite magic, a famously flat terrain and a mild climate surely had an impact?

[Cthulhu_]

> how do we fix what we have today? How do you fix the concrete jungles that most cities are today in the US.

Elbow grease. Break the concrete and plant shit, pay people to maintain these things every once in a while. I mean most amenity planting is low maintenance and only needs looking after once or twice a year to avoid it growing wild.

The US has the solutions already - a lot of money, and a lot of people looking for a steady job. All it takes is for people to stop hoarding said money and Decide to solve the issue.

[KennyBlanken]

Somerville, Massachusetts had a large Italian population a generation or two back and it seems damn near all of them considered "making it" covering every square inch of their land with concrete. Then putting up a 2 foot high brick wall topped with a few-feet-tall wrought iron fence.

The city has been working to undo it by providing financial incentives for removal, and partnering with an informal group of volunteers to make it cheap to do. They put out a call for public volunteers to have a sort of reverse-barn-raising. A big bunch of people show up and help rip apart and load up the concrete.

Jamaica Plain, a neighborhood in Boston, used to have a group of volunteers that worked with local nurseries to plant a tree and take care of the initial critical care (watering regularly) for free. All you had to do was email them, and then point when the crew showed up.

[micromacrofoot]

local politics is the only way

[presentation]

Agreed but given American politics this days, a well-placed earthquake will probably happen first.