[GekkePrutser]

I think the Netherlands is still one of the more car-centric cultures in Europe though. And I've lived in several countries. Perhaps the inner cities aren't, but outside of them it's very hard to do without a car.

In many small villages/towns there is only a bus service during peak hours now. When I visit it's really a royal pain (and taxies are unaffordable as an alternative). And when you work in the Netherlands you're usually required to work nationwide which means countless hours in the car visiting clients. Public transport takes several times as long as car travel.

I really hated it when I worked there (I'm from there as you might have guessed). All these hours driving in frantic traffic were so stressful. I work in Barcelona now where public transport is much better (rural is still worse than inner-city but both are much better than the Netherlands' services). It's the first place I've lived where I genuinely don't need a car, it would only be a burden to me. Time between metros is counted in seconds and the network is so big. As well as that there's buses and trams and regional trains passing through that can be used to hop from one side of the city to the other.

The only thing that's genuinely better in the Netherlands is the bike lane network IMO :) That really is amazing. But I just don't see the feasibility of doing without a car completely there.

[TacticalCoder]

> I work in Barcelona now where public transport is much better...

Barcelona is one of the most stressful, if not the most stressful city, to use public transport in in Europe. If anything it should serve as an example for other cities as to what to not do. Public transports are full of thieves and scammers. It is simply beyond belief. It is known that if you ever dare to retaliate when you catch people stealing you, it can quickly degenerate very badly... For you.

I don't want to hear the typical: "If you look like a local and know what not to do, you'll be fine". I want public transports to be very safe otherwise I won't use them.

Several people mentioned Tokyo already: I spent close to a year there. Now that is a city with working and safe public transports.

[GekkePrutser]

Yes Barcelona has a big problem with pickpockets indeed. This is more of a legal issue: any theft of 400 euro or less is punishable by a fine only even if it's the 4000th time.

Because of this there's gangs of professional pickpockets. But they're trained to avoid conflict. Because any violence will incur serious charges. I've grabbed one once and pushed him against a wall when I felt him reaching for my phone and he literally was passive and relaxed. Just dropped the phone and strolled off. No way someone behaves like that unless they have trained it.

So yes they're an absolute plague but the risk of violence is low. And the cause does not have much to do with public transport (it happens on the street too) but with ignorant lawmakers :)

[krageon]

> Public transports are full of thieves and scammers

This is true in the overwhelming majority of public transport around the world.

> Several people mentioned Tokyo

Yes, Japan is one of the safest nations in this regard. That's cool, but definitely not achievable everywhere because it is due to a lot of environmental factors (like the culture and the incredible conviction rates).

[DoreenMichele]

I think your argument only strengthens mine. It sounds like you are saying "The Netherlands was kind of the America of Europe in terms of being crazy car-centric and they sucked so much worse than they do currently."

To which I say "So you're telling me if they can become the global poster child for doing this better, anyone can do this better -- even the US."

[GekkePrutser]

Well, I don't know how much they suck now as I've left 10 years ago, but I know pre-corona there were many cases of the largest traffic jams ever reported in the news, almost weekly :)

When I was there these numbers were much lower despite the A2 being a horrible ever-changing construction site. And it was already so frustrating I once broke my teeth just from grinding it :(

At the same time even the frequent train routes were apparently really overcrowded. Everything is different now with Corona of course but that's worldwide.