[wastedhours]

> most men take only a fraction of the allowed time

I truly don't understand this, and each time I see the stats on it sit in even greater disbelief. Why would anyone turn down the opportunity to spend, for an awful lot of companies, fully paid time off work to spend time with their new family?

Guessing I'm much less "career-minded" than of lot of these guys, but it makes zero sense to me that you wouldn't stretch this benefit as far as you can do.

Edit: appreciate all the comments! Main themes are to reiterate it's not an easy task by any stretch, and fears (both real and assumed) over retaliation for time out. I'm not yet lucky enough to be father, but I still can't square either of those between work and family time.

[bko]

I took less than the allotted time. I was bored sitting at home. Much of the first 3 months is feeding the baby, something I am physically unequipped to do.

I enjoy work and the comradery of my co-workers. I was working from home anyway, so there was no long commute. And it gave me something to do. I'm a programmer. I like my work. It gives me an outlet for my creativity and allows me to bond with co-workers. And I care about the product and deliverables I'm working on. I don't like letting my coworkers down as they cover for me.

I took another 2 weeks after my wife went back to work.

[paulryanrogers]

I felt similar after the first child. But the reality for my SO is that it was harder on them because of all the other non-baby chores I couldn't do when working.

So for the second child I had to get VP approval to take a whopping 3 weeks (unlimited* PTO, technically no paternity leave). That was essential because now there was childcare, chores, and baby care involved. It should've been more like 8w.

[bko]

That's fair. I was working from home and tried to do a lot more of the non-baby chores, like cleaning and cooking. We're also fortunate enough to have paid cleaners. But it didn't require me to take any more time off work. I would log off relatively early. I think sitting around not doing anything or screwing around on my computer not at work would just annoy my partner more. But I know some people have a lot more chores

[paulryanrogers]

Good points. We had a house to maintain, family was further away, and no paid help. Another big factor is C-section recovery can be a lot longer than natural birth. It is major surgery.

[aerosmile]

I think you might be touching on a taboo that nobody will ever admit publicly: having a baby is no walk in the park, and in comparison sitting in a cubicle and answering a few emails can seem like a massive upgrade.

[thex10]

This is why I, the nursing/birthing parent, went back to work after six (unpaid) weeks. That and I wanted to earn income again...

[toomuchtodo]

Lots of folks out there who don’t want to do newborn work or spend time with their family, anecdotally. It’s a chore, not a benefit.

Higher level, the value of children to parents is declining based on total fertility rate declines.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/20/paid-paternity... (Men who receive paid paternity leave in Spain want fewer children, study finds)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472... (Does paternity leave reduce fertility?)

[lotsofpulp]

Or children are no longer a byproduct of sex due to ease and availability of birth control options, and women gaining financial freedom, so the cost of children is finally allowed to become explicit.

As opposed to environments without prophylaxis options and where women do not have financial independence, where it was implicitly borne by women.

[jimmar]

If you thought your boss would resent you for taking the full benefit and would rank your performance poorly, would you take that risk knowing that you've now got a very small person who is relying on you? You could potentially be limiting bonuses, raises, and promotions for an extra few days off. I'm not saying this is right, but I can imagine a reasonable new father feeling this pressure.

I doubt many people shorten their paid time off simply because they love work so much.

[TimPC]

In most countries it’s not fully paid but a fractional pay setup for paternity leave. Some good companies top the benefit up to 75% of base pay. But bonus and stock are challenges. For many people being on paternity leave they earn 40% of total compensation which may be part of the reason many dads go back early.

[genghisjahn]

I took all twelve weeks at my company spread out of the course of a year. 90% great, 10% work hassle. I manage 3 teams and it was hard to get some larger initiatives moving with me being out so much. But we aren’t good at leave like this is the US. Corp policies aside we as employees just aren’t good at it. But it’s the right way to go. And I wanted to encourage people on team to take the leave that was available.

[SaintGhurka]

I can think of a few reasons. Foremost is they feel threatened by the prospect of their employer realizing that they're not irreplaceable. Also they may love their project and want to be there for the next phase. Or maybe they just figure that their employer would be hurt by their absence and they'd feel guilty about.

[moron4hire]

When I took mine, I was told it was at a particularly convenient time because I had just started at the company (Deloitte, so huge corp) so wasn't deeply embedded in any projects yet, plus my billable time ratio "doesn't count in your first year".

I still got a lot of pressure from my bosses to cut it short and work part time while I was out. One of them even questioned my "loyalty to the team" at a holiday party that I attended in the middle of it (I went specifically because I wanted to get face time with people and not be distant).

The way a lot of corporations work, you have the "policy", and then you have management interpreting that policy. Things like leave of any kind might be technically "guaranteed", but they come at a cost of fewer individual contributions to projects and lower billable rates. And, at the end of the day, you report to someone who only cares about his budget, who has control over your project assignments.

So after that, suddenly my first year was only 6 months long (something something fiscal year), and it did count (blah blah blah pattern extrapolation) and I wasn't getting good assignments (constantly set up to fail, and even though I always pulled it off, I'd get terrible reviews for the smallest of issues). Eventually, I got "laid off". Really, I was fired because my billable rates was too low (and my billable rate was low due to retaliation for having slightly more going on in my life than living at work), but the company schedules regular layoffs to axe the lowest x% of employees. I guess that is one silver lining of that awful, Metropolis-esque machine: they gave me a (very small) severance on the way out.

So yeah. You can have a company "guarantee" leave, but still will structure a reason to get rid of you.

[kayodelycaon]

Same thing happens frequently with ADA. You're not going anywhere other than out as soon as they can find a good excuse, if you're even hired in the first place. Doesn't matter if you can do the work or not.

[htrp]

For people who don't know... Deloitte is a literal partnership so every hour you aren't working and billing is directly impacting the income of your boss (the partner).

[moron4hire]

Most consultancies operate this way, not just ones organized as a partnership. My boss and his boss weren't partners. I think it had to go up two more levels to finally hit a partner, though there were always other partners involved in the projects (that's part of the grift of partnerships, load up as many high-hourly rate partners as possible).

[giantg2]

My career is basically non-existent. I realize that I have a job, not a career. I took my full amount. I think it indirectly hurt my rating that year. I took family medical leave this year. It appears that indirectly hurt my rating this year.

By indirectly, I mean that when they compare me to the other people they don't seem to be prorating my "stats" for that extra time off.

[orangepanda]

Might be different in other countries, but where I live only one parent can take the full 18 months leave. For the other parent, its only a few weeks. In practice, the one that's paid less takes the leave, and that's usually the mother.