[zxlk21e]

> It dawned on me that my attempt at completely controlling my life had, in fact, caused me to lose control over it.

Could you possibly unpack this for me a little bit? It strikes me as absolutely true for me, too, or at least sounds like it could be true, but I'm pulling at a thread I can't quite grasp.

[mekoka]

Warning: Buddhism redox and incomplete ahead. The purpose of what I write is to whet your appetite and maybe spark an interest for a personal journey. I strongly advise and even recommend a proper introduction. I suggest D T Suzuki and Alan Watts for their introduction to Zen. Amazing vulgarisers of these concepts. Watts' lectures are available on YouTube.

In the Buddhist philosophy the notion that you can control anything other than yourself is considered absurd. Even conceding that you have control over yourself is being generous. A need for control then becomes a major source of frustration, or as it's often referred to in this context, dissatisfaction or suffering. By studying the philosophy, you gradually untangle the absurdity and you progressively start to see the theory be manifested in reality. You then learn to accept it and see the absurdity of your own desire for control.

I can say that to you and it might make sense. But that's still at the theoretical level. For it to be true to you, you need to make the journey yourself.

[cpeterso]

As the bumper sticker says: "Don't believe everything you think." :) Thoughts have a mind of their own.

[ema]

I tried so hard to make everything go as I wanted that I increasingly avoided situations where I couldn't predict how they would go. That included stuff like talking about my feelings or asking for a favor or eventually going grocery shopping(anything could happen!! ;). Of course those are all pretty useful things and my difficulty with them convinced me even more that I had to absolutely make sure I had covered every eventuality.

[crdrost]

This is also a deep principle of physics. Very simple systems can be "linear" and you can say "okay, if you tweak this little knob, e.g. increase the input, then such-and-so is what must happen, e.g. an increase in the output." But most interactions and feedback loops and so forth create a "complex system" and the result of tweaking one knob is not always what you'd expect -- you add more cars to a freeway and the throughput drops radically. Sounds like you were turning up the "control things" knob, and things got progressively more out of control -- this is quite common.

Another example is that often people who give up dieting will lose weight and keep it off. What matters is not the calories but the health of the relationship with food, and if the diet is taking an unhealthy relationship and making it even more dysfunctional, then how could it help?

Of course, you found the Buddhist solution which is quite meritorious in its own right and served me well at a difficult time in my life. There is also a Christian mystic solution which has similar aspects.

[buddhistdude]

Why do you need to understand this sentence? So that you can use that new knowledge to alter the set of concepts that you have of life, ideally improving them, so that you are more able to control your life, to steer it in a better direction? Because you want to be alright? The point is to let go

[zxlk21e]

I'm intrigued because at first it appears to be a paradoxical statement, but with a potentially logical answer.

In addition to that though, I think I (and others?) make sense of the world through narrative and there is value to other people's narratives, though that may be in conflict with the context of your comment.

[mekoka]

It's a Zen game he's playing with you :). The point is to let go, but letting go can also become a pursuit, in which case you're not really letting go. You're right about the paradox, you're possibility wrong about the existence of a logical answer.

[buddhistdude]

The idea of controlling ones life presupposes that there is “one”, that is separate from life, so that the “one” can control life. It presupposes some kind of separation in the field of experience.

[krelian]

I recommend listening to some Alan Watts lectures on youtube (try to find a long video, the short ones are usually just bits with music added).

[ozim]

Maybe you can also think about "Maximizers vs Satisficers" as in this article: https://www.psychologistworld.com/cognitive/maximizers-satis...

Trying to find "the best option" or trying to totally control the outcome is counter productive. You lose your options, you lose your time.

While being satisficer you accept some parts that might not be perfect and your life moves forward. You open more options as you are not stuck on picking exactly the right washing machine and you open time and headspace for other avenues.

[agloeregrets]

One more logic-focused on it is that control is a false concept in general. You can only choose what to control what you think about at best but outside factors are out of your control so you become a slave to those changing factors. So, effectively, attempting to control external factors makes the external factors control your thinking.

Imagine leading an animal into a cage with food. To that animal, they are controlling their food intake and their lunch! In that attempt to exert control over the situation they have lost all primary control.

[artificialLimbs]

You can make aims in your life, and try to work towards goals and build willpower. You can aim to surround yourself with people that you believe will help you grow and be positive influences on you, for instance. Or you can aim avoid people that you think won't. You will still run into the whole gamut at the grocery store, however.

Controlling your thoughts is another matter. Just try to stop thinking for an entire minute. Don't have any thoughts. Alternately, only think about 1 thing. You very probably cannot do it. We don't choose what to think, but we can choose how we react (or not) to our thoughts. You CAN choose to accept the thoughts as they come and not identify with them, deciding "oh, that's a thought, how interesting". This is in opposition to what we normally do, which is to act on every little thought that floats along or decide to 'grab' onto the thoughts and stay with them while going down whatever rabbit hole they lead us into.

Your point does stand, control is a false concept in general.

[setpatchaddress]

Tibetan Buddhist meditation practice makes it quite clear that you can (and are expected to, eventually) change which thoughts arise in the first place.