[antioxidant]

Rutin is basically an antioxidant that contains quercetin. Yet another antioxidant which “prolongs” lifespan by a negligible percentage compared to other antioxidants and mice on a keto diet which avoid the oxidative stress from carbs in the first place.

It seems we always hit a limit to lifespan studies. Unless we are able to modify the organs themselves, including the insulin response and mTOR, no single substance will ever prolong lifespan in a significant way.

[tormeh]

I agree. Lots of studies seem focused on slightly slowing the accumulation of damage in our bodies over time, but this is a battle that can only be lost. Entropy always wins. What we need is tech to repair our bodies. The most promising candidate (in my uneducated opinion) is using gene editing to correct the mutations that accumulate in our genomes.

[faeyanpiraat]

You need to change every old cell in your body to a young version of the cell every once in a while.

The difficult part is the neurons, you need to change them one by one, and restore all their connections, and internal parameters.

This is my theory on how you can “refresh” yourself while keeping you you.

[adflux]

To which extent does the brain not repair neurons already?

[KronisLV]

In regards to the physical changes: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2596698/

> It has been widely found that the volume of the brain and/or its weight declines with age at a rate of around 5% per decade after age 401 with the actual rate of decline possibly increasing with age particularly over age 70.

I feel like that's probably a big one without getting into the functional changes.

And just adding a bunch of neurons would probably be like giving your computer a new HDD. I think that the argument is about how it's important to preserve the information contained within the old neurons somehow.

[perl4ever]

There was a study that claimed to prove that antioxidants can prevent the stress that causes sleep deprivation to be fatal, and that this fundamentally originates in the digestive system across quite different species.

They didn't extend lifespan compared to baseline, but they restored baseline lifespan to sleep deprived subjects by feeding them various substances.

They tried a bunch of antioxidants, the most readily available one was melatonin, I think, but it's not clear to me what it all means.

If mice and fruit flies can live without sleep, would it work for humans? Do antioxidants help humans with sleep disorders?

All I know is that over the counter melatonin does not seem to work any miracles for me. I have no idea if it would make me capable of staying awake 24/7 if forced.

Lifespan is a separate issue, but you could look at eliminating sleep, if possible, as living 1/3 (or more) longer.

[raducu]

What kind of miracles do you expect from melatonin?

To make you fall asleep?

Do not take more than 450micro grams, over the counter contains waaay to much melatonin.

Melatonin is an antioxidant, but it is not a miracle hormone.

It just signals the absence of light. Owls and other nocturnal animals get wide awake in the presence of melatonin, humans and diurnal animals get sleepy.

[perl4ever]

I don't expect anything in particular. As I wrote, I've tried it and it doesn't do anything amazing. I had previously tried it on recommendation from a sleep specialist before I read about the idea that it reverses metabolic damage from sleep deprivation.

Over the counter supplements usually seem to have way too large a dose, and I've read they can be very inconsistent too.

The point is, I read this amazing study, and it may be somehow incorrect or even fraudulent, but it is what it is. Sleep deprivation kills. The claim is that via, not one, but any of several substances, that can be reversed, at least in lab insects/animals.

I definitely am not advising anyone take any supplements. I want to clearly state that I don't experience any particular beneficial effects from anything I've tried.

I just am saying that uncovering the reason why sleep is needed has to have world changing applications, or end up as a spectacular debunking, it seems to me.

[raducu]

I understand and I know certain people use mega-dosages(10-15 miligrams) to protect themselves from neurotoxicity of certain drugs, but I'm sure that's just bro-science.

I would steer away from melatonin as a supplement for anything other than sleep, because it is a powerful hormone and while the science is lacking, it's better not to mess with such a powerful and important hormone.

[perl4ever]

I really wish for reform in regulation, so that quality and dosage of over the counter supplements could be trusted. I haven't heard of any groundswell of support for that, though. People say that it's a problem with cannabis supplements too.

[Traubenfuchs]

What's with the exact 450 mcg recommendation?

What happens if I take more?

[raducu]

There was a MIT study that the optimal doaage for sleep is around 300mcg. The body produces about 30mcg of melatonin afik, and the oral bioavailability of melatonin is about 10% so, the math works out.

More might produce excessive grogginess after you wake up, and in my experience it leads to fast tolerance -- so it doesn't work; 300-450mcg works in perpetuity for me.

[vidarh]

The precise dose that works for you may vary, but a significant sign you've taken too much is feeling really tired and groggy the following day. For me up to about 1mg seems to work fine but I've not used it enough to see how well it works below that.

[zdragnar]

I get really bad restless legs on enough of it- so I get groggy, but end up taking longer to sleep and feel less rested after.

[colechristensen]

If we do increase lifespan or isn’t going to be because we found a magic pill, it will be because we found a few metrics we can provide external feedback to control an important variable.

[foolinaround]

interesting to come across Quercetin, which was also trumpeted as the wonder supplement for minimizing ill effects of diseases like Covid19 See the Zstack prophylactic protocol from Dr Zelenko, where he suggests this as the better alternative to his earlier recommendation, HCQ, to act as an ionophore for Zinc.

[nradov]

This paper explains the details of Quercetin as a zinc ionophore.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jf5014633

[ipaddr]

You will also find it in red wine, onions, green tea.

[alecco]

> mice on a keto diet

There's no single mention of diet in the abstracts and non-paywalled versions. Care to share a link or screenshot to support your claim?

[spfzero]

I think you can read the parent as saying the mice on the keto diet, were in another different experiment, to compare this one to.

If I am reading it correctly...

[The_rationalist]

You clearly didn't follow geroprotectors advances. Classical antioxidants are weak that's for sure. Mitochondrial targeted antioxidants are one millionth time more potent (this is NOT an exageration), as such they can double lifespan and eliminate entire classes of diseases such as Alzeihmer and Parkinson. Only a small minority of people are erudite in geroprotectors today and as such only this small minority will be part of the first generation to have significantly better ageing.

[airesearcher]

Such as what substances? And are they available in supplements?

[The_rationalist]

There are many but the most studied one is skq1. It is marketed as eye drops for slowing age related eye diseases such as macular degeneration. It is also marketed as cosmetics to be applied on the skin as an anti wrinkle agent. Of course those uses are not enough geroprotective. The oral pill is in the work and will very probably be the breakthrough of the century though, it will take ~a decade before being FDA approved. However indeed the currently marketed cosmetics are the same active substance and can be off-label ingested orally (or sublingually). Anybody doing that should read the pubmed papers about Skq1 in order to make an informed decision.

The other contender is Fullerene C60 which is bioavailable when diluted in oil (e.g olive oil) however it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier and hence won't stop your current neurodegeneration.

[analyte123]

MitoQ is in the same class as SkQ1 and is already marketed as a pill. Both are made up of an antioxidant anion and a phosphonium cation for getting into mitochondria. However, a rare controlled study against using a random inert anion with the same mitochondrial penetrator shows similar effects as the purported geroprotectors [1] suggesting that nobody has any idea how these molecules work to the extent they work at all. But it’s definitely an interesting area of research.

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31139092/

[dozenmattr]

Theres lots of info about C60 on Longecity but I think that forum is slowly dying now. Could you share where you're reading info about SkQ1? Is it another life extension forum?

[swader999]

Best source to purchase?

[bulletsvshumans]

Links please?