[Melting_Harps]

I believe it, inflammatory responses causes so many things we are only now starting to see in the past 15 years, lots of autoimmune diseases that had no cause or correlation to anything seem to be a direct byproduct of a modern Western diet--sugar based.

It's crazy but I used to mock the idea of fasting from a biological perspective (an education emphasis on glucose and misc metabolic pathways to create ATP etc...) because it would make me 'hangry' only to realize that a lot of that was just the crashes from a poor sugary American diet.

Now, its my to go thing to do when I'm feeling ill or lethargic as it perks me up and after nearly a diet of daily intermittent fasting (10-18 hours) I now understand why so many ancient cultures have it as a critical part of their religious practices.

Also, it makes food taste really good as you will savour every bite instead of just stuff your face.

Anyhow, it's insane to me that it took this far into the 21st century for modern medicine to see the obvious when it comes to emphasis of the gut biome in the overall health of the body and mind. The next thing will be the emphasis on healthy animal meat and fats in satiation and lower inflammation, as well as the absurdity of drinking other animals milk with all the antibodies, steroids, antibiotics etc... used in conventional Ag.

Raw milk is ok, but honestly I wonder what the amount of leaky gut and IB, and possibly Crohn's disease this single thing into our diet has caused? It's worth noting that most of the Human population loses the ability to metabolize milk (via na enzyme called lactase) by the time they reach 12, very few populations still have it: think Nordics. Even Mongolians who have been milking animals for 1000s of years still lack this gene/enzyme which.

[Lammy]

> Anyhow, it's insane to me that it took this far into the 21st century for modern medicine to see the obvious when it comes to emphasis of the gut biome in the overall health of the body and mind.

It does make me wonder if anyone in agriculture/food/health/etc has known about this stuff in private, and for how long if so, like how Exxon did private climate-change studies in the 1970s: https://corporate.exxonmobil.com/-/media/Global/Files/climat...

[Melting_Harps]

> It does make me wonder if anyone in agriculture/food/health/etc has known about this stuff in private, and for how long if so, like how Exxon did private climate-change studies in the 1970s: https://corporate.exxonmobil.com/-/media/Global/Files/climat...

Yes, Biodynmiac agriculture is just a lot of sound microbiological practices explained with a 'woo' lens which yields amazing food; essentially what the preps are just an inoculation of the microbes found in the Ruminants needed to ensure a healthy flora and fauna at the beginning of a growing season, add this to N fixated crops in rotation with heavy feeders and leaving times of dormancy to repair with grazing Ruminants animals in the off-seasons.

These practices have been in practice since (at least) the beginning of the 20th Century, they started in Austria but took hold in Germany in earnest ever since, and while I think Rudolf Steiner was mainly a grifter, he did create a solid foundation for renewable, sustainable Ag.

Source: Me, a cellular and molecular biologist that undertook a Biodynamic horticulture 'Master Gardener' apprenticeship in Europe. Then managed a Biodynamic farm in Hawaii.

Also, I'd argue most European and Asian cultures have fermented foods that span millennia that reflect the need to maintain a healthy gut biome with tasty food like kimchi or sauerkraut, tsukeomono, too.

[heisenbit]

I suspect the food industry has zero interest in this kind of research as bacterial overgrowth is directly related to overfeeding of said bacteria and that leads to a discussion of overeating, eating too much hard to digest (more for the bacteria) processed stuff and the surplus of fructose in our food.

[hinkley]

Sometime in the last 20 years we simply stopped talking about fiber, and both kinds play a big role in gut biota. It's like we've simply given up on it.

Probably most of us aren't getting anywhere near as much pectin in our diets as we used to, let alone vegetables.

[ratsmack]

Fiber slows the absorption of sugar so that it gives you longer lasting energy instead of spiking your blood sugar all at once.

[1_player]

Some time in the last 100+ years we've started talking about fiber, and the benefits are still dubious.

Dr. Zoë Harcombe - What about fiber? https://youtu.be/4KrmpK_Lckg

[agumonkey]

wait I thought fiber vanished in the 1950s due to nutritionist of the day going all in on the 'calory is all that matters' but a lot of people started to talk about fibers in the 2000s (my memory is blurry though)

[astrange]

The funny thing is that the anti-sugar keto people are also even more anti-fiber. They'll tell you that you just need to eat steak and fats and nothing else and fiber is part of the "healthy whole grains" lie. I'm not sure if any of them are into gut microbiome science yet.

[hinkley]

I keep getting this ad on YouTube by some alpha hipster complaining about all the toxic poop in your gut, like he thinks that your GI tract would be better if it were empty all the time. That’s not how digestion works, sport. You don’t have thirty odd feet of intestines because evolution was too stupid to make a shorter trip from your mouth to your butt. Your first clue should be that it’s folded up on itself.

[keenreed]

Brocoli, cauliflower, lettuce... all highly recommended by every book. You discover the need for fibers very fast when starting keto.

[Melting_Harps]

.> Brocoli, cauliflower, lettuce... all highly recommended by every book. You discover the need for fibers very fast when starting keto.

Exactly, as a chef we had to match the fashionable diets to our patrons and if you include brussele sprouts to that you essentially lined out the trend veg of the last ~4 years.

I go into ketosis when I need too, and have found that prolonged states of ketosis to be too limiting for an enjoyable life if you love food. BUut I cannot imagine anyone who would simply remove veg from thier diet and believe they're healthy, their is a reason many body builder guys end up with colon cancer and intestine replacements due to an exclusively high protein based diet.

[nostrebored]

I don't think that this is true. Keto people I've met are very into the idea of 'net carbs': carbs minus fiber.

[astrange]

I asked about fiber once in /r/ketoscience and everyone yelled at me for suggesting they eat a vegetable.

[MattRix]

Oh come on, the keto subs are a bit uh, over-vigilant, but you are very clearly not telling the full story here.

[tomjakubowski]

Wow, some astonishing Reddit posts about this if you search /r/carnivore for "poop".

https://www.reddit.com/r/carnivore/comments/jrl0jg/somewhat_...

[100011_100001]

Out of curiosity and personal interest. How do you eat? You do IF, but do you do 24 hour fasts? Do you avoid sugar?

[Melting_Harps]

> Out of curiosity and personal interest. How do you eat? You do IF, but do you do 24 hour fasts? Do you avoid sugar?

I believe this was addressed to me?

6 hour eating windows per day where I eat upwards of 3000+ calories if I'm doing a normal no so extraneous project (tech) with just 3 day gym work outs--1 heavy day between 2 normal light workouts.

If I'm doing manual labour (farming, kitchen, mechanical stuff etc...) which I recommend everyone to do, I'll open it up to two 3 hour windows, between 1pm-4pm, and then 1am-4am. I found this is gives me the most benefit IF i have to eat more calories. If I need to travel while I'm doing any of that I'll go to ketosis and just introduce lots of animals fats and shift to no carbs, I usually don't stay in that state for more than a week, it's too boring and I get tired of eating things like avocados, bacon, eggs and salads really quick now.

Usually when I work manual labour I suffer from a sort of fatigue if I eat in the morning so I've worked around that--I hated waking up in the morning and being forced to eat as a kid so I came to loathe breakfast. So, I'll break my eating windows to 2 ~2500 calorie windows.

But to be honest I've been known to do 4000+ calories in the height of the growing seasons in Spring/Summer/Fall (in my 20s) where I could eat a dozen eggs (raw or cooked) alongside a full size meal with heavy carbs followed by an hour nap. This kept me going until 1am which is when I'd have time to eat again and have a shower and have personal time.

Also, I'm not a heavy guy my normal walking weight is 155 lbs with ~10% body fat, but I have a very fast metabolism so it's like having a turbo V10; sure you can coast it and try to get within a decent MPG, but when it's doing what it was designed to do I can literately feel the heat dissipation from my head from the calories that I'm burning in real time--I was the guy with the steamy head under a hat when it was below zero outside in Germany or Switzerland.

In short I have a harder time not being calorie deficient if I have to put my body to work so I'm unique in that respect even now that I'm over 30. I'm actually only realizing what a gift this is now since I always wanted to be pack on more weight when I was younger.