[klenwell]

> I didn't go, but the photos of the architecture from the different countries were beautiful.

Apparently, the American pavilion was not among them:

Now that the US Pavilion has been open for several days, its reviews, to be generous, are mixed. Visitors, after a two-hour wait, enjoy the upbeat attitude of the student “ambassadors” who greet them in Mandarin — but few are impressed by the three films that constitute the US Pavilion’s content. (One reporter noted that the price for the three shorts, about $23 million, is more than the production costs of the Oscar-winning film, The Hurt Locker.) The “American people’s” sole walk-on are brief vignettes that flicker on the screen and then are gone. Chinese visitors are reported to have remarked, especially after the hype and long wait, “We expected more from America.” Visitors exit the theater into a large hall dedicated to fawning over the 60-odd corporate sponsors whose names and brands are the only aspects of American life and culture to which the pavilion accords recognition.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/an-epic-failure-of-planni_b_5...

[ipsum2]

Definitely, check out the photos on the Wikipedia article I linked. USA looks very plain, compared to Thailand, Taiwan, India, France, Portugal, UK etc. USA's architecture looks closer to North Korea than the others.

[alaxsxaq]

Sounds like Disney. Disney World (? - the one in Florida, USA) had a gift shop at the exit to every ride last time I was there. The bean counters probably consider it a great addition, and I'm sure it pays dividends, but that sort of unadulterated cashing in puts me off.

[jhu247]

Not necessarily for lack of effort. I was there and Obama recorded a video specifically for the visitors to the US Pavilion.

[thepasswordis]

The US seems to have largely decided that any amount of national pride is something to be ashamed of.

[WaxProlix]

Is that sarcasm? American nationalism and over-the-top expressions of patriotic pride border on the jingoistic.

[colordrops]

This thread is a perfect microcosm of the american psyche - two extremes that only see the other side's extremism. There is little measured, nuanced opinion to be had. Both extreme jingoistic nationalism, and shame for any nationalism at all are unhealthy.

[collaborative]

There is a difference between nationalism and patriotism. Patriotism is the love of/honoring your heritage, gratefulness for the work that your elders did for you to be here. Nationalism is the promotion of a specific group at the expense of others, relies on victimism to justify supremacism and deludes itself with an ideal that never comes.

The difference between these 2 is mostly known in continental Europe where it became very pronounced in the 20th century, but the psyche of the rest of the world (US included) still has to go through a learning excercise. And this knowledge is also quickly fading in Europe itself. There is no healthy middle ground when it comes to nationalism (not patriotism)

[WaxProlix]

I don't think there's any of what you're saying here. Compared to almost any other country, objectively, there are more flags per capita in the USA, more flags displayed (where else does everything from a car dealership to a hardware store have multiple prominent flags?), etc. These phenomena exist everywhere, but pretending that it's not more prominent in the US of A is committing some fallacy of the golden mean or something.

[colordrops]

I don't think you understood what I said.

[WaxProlix]

I must not have, I took you to be saying that my comment - and others like it - were a good example of how 'extremism' on 'both sides' was causing divides, when in fact I think my stance is pretty far from 'extremist', and definitely a far cry from what I think you're equating it with on the 'other side', if that makes sense at all.

[lmz]

But only one extreme is grayed out here.

[Rule35]

Why does someone doing something over-the-top mean you can't enjoy doing it normally?

Look at how and why people want to be in the USA and look at those things as worth caring about. Try to make your country better for everyone and be happy/proud about your efforts and those of your predecessors.

[TomSwirly]

I've visited some 40 countries and have never been in one that was anywhere near so ostentatious in displaying symbols of national pride as the US. It's like you guys will forget you're Americans if you don't see a flag for a minute or two.

[markdown]

Ordinary people hang US flags off the front of their houses. In a bizarre indoctrination ritual, they make their kids pledge allegiance to the state from a young age. They think they're the greatest country in the world.

Have you taken a good look at your own country.

[wil421]

What’s wrong with hanging your country’s flag? I’ve seen people from all over the world wear or display their own country’s flags.

Have you taken a look at yourself?

[markdown]

It's abnormal behaviour. There's no reason to hang your country's flag in front of your house. I mean... maybe if you live near the Canadian or Mexican border and are feeling particularly patriotic or insecure.

> I’ve seen people from all over the world wear or display their own country’s flags.

You may have imagined it. If not, could you say where? It is a uniquely American thing. I mean, Indians will pull out a flag quite often, but they're perpetually at war with their neighbours so it's kinda understandable. In the US you'll see flags on houses in the middle of buttfuck nowhere, owned by people who've never met another foreigner. It really is bizarre behaviour.

[wil421]

Germany. Southern Germany specifically. Lots of people even have Bavarian or German flag stickers on their cars.

Lot’s of flags in Italy including regional flags like Siena which has 17 different flags corresponding to the parts of the city. Lots Italian and Vatican flags in Rome.

I’ve met a Costa Rican tourist in Europe who had a flag hat, shirt, backpack, and a small flag in hand.

[markdown]

Thanks.

> I’ve met a Costa Rican tourist in Europe who had a flag hat, shirt, backpack, and a small flag in hand.

That's very common with tourists, and it makes sense... you're travelling through other countries, representing your own. Same with carrying a flag in a protest or at an international sports event.

That's very different to putting up a flagpole in front of your house to fly a national flag.

[zepto]

There are plenty of union Jack’s in England, and Tricolores in France.

[markdown]

Flying in front of residential homes? I don't think so. I could go onto Google Maps and in short order find a US flag on a random US suburban residence. It'd take days to find the same in the UK or France.

[jiofih]

I don’t get the fuss with the pledge of alliance (non American here).

> "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Why is it bad to declare your commitment to the country you’re born in and it’s values? It’s not like you can’t leave (except for the IRS) if you don’t like it.

[orf]

Borderline indoctrination. You're not pledging commitment to it's "values" and young children are not at an age to have a nuanced discussion or awareness about what those exactly those values are, and make a decision about if they should be declaring a commitment to them or not.

[jiofih]

Should everyone wait until their kids turn 18 to start teaching them their own morals and values? You’d just be auctioning their brain to random others who are willing to do that.

I think we either have very different concepts of what indoctrination is, or there is much more beyond the pledge itself, and that is where the real issues are?

[orf]

> Should everyone wait until their kids turn 18 to start teaching them their own morals and values?

You keep saying morals and values. Which part of the pledge pertains to morals and values? It was still said during a time of complete racial segregation. Did the practically unchanged pledge teach children about the morality and values of that? Or domestic internment camps during WW2? What about during the Vietnam war? What deeper nuanced meaning am I missing where it balances "freedom and liberty for all" with the massive expansion of the post-9/11 surveilance state?

It's got nothing to do with morals or "values".

Perhaps we should just say "if you feel so strongly about your country at the age of 15 that you want to recite a prayer to it every morning then you can in your own time".

[stickfigure]

I believe you missed the parent's point. The Pledge of Allegiance is pretty thin on values, other than "liberty and justice for all" crammed in at the end like an afterthought. Mostly it's "my country and religion, right or wrong".

[Rule35]

It's not binding so it's not that big of a deal.

[markdown]

> Why is it bad to declare your commitment to the country you’re born in and it’s values?

It's just indoctrination. I mean, commitment to your country is implied. Do you stand up, put hand on heart and pledge allegiance to your family? Your church? Your friends? Why would you do that for your country? It's nationalistic nonsense that has no place in a modern, democratic society.

[Rule35]

> Do you stand up, put hand on heart and pledge allegiance to your family? Your church? Your friends?

I didn't pick the marriage ceremony my culture used. If it involved a hand over your heart I wouldn't have worried about it.

> Why would you do that for your country?

That specific gesture aside, perhaps because I cared about the ideals it represents and the words in the affirmation.

> It's nationalistic nonsense that has no place in a modern, democratic society.

No. Without some sort of bond to those around me why would I respect their views enough to allow a democracy? It's because we share some goals and ideals. If I thought you hated the things I loved about my country I might see you as an enemy, and vice versa, but if we see that we share our dreams we can survive not sharing any other opinions.

[lmm]

When you're a child you can't realistically leave, and the pledge sounds rather like a promise to never do so. The people making those pledges have very little idea what values they're signing up to. It has the same vibe as chastity pledges, made by kids who don't know what they're talking about at the urging of their parents.

[jiofih]

> sounds rather like a promise to never do so

I just quoted the entire pledge and there is no semblance of that. Interesting how every reply has a different, deep interpretation of it. There must be some cultural context that is not possible to get from the outside.

[lmm]

> I just quoted the entire pledge and there is no semblance of that.

What does "allegiance" mean to you? I looked it up in a dictionary and saw it described as essentially "commitment".

[TomSwirly]

> Why is it bad to declare your commitment to the country you’re born in and it’s values?

Why should a child be forced to do that? What if you just don't agree with the values?

> It’s not like you can’t leave (except for the IRS) if you don’t like it.

For most people, it is exactly that you cannot leave.

[Aeolun]

> Why is it bad to declare your commitment to the country you’re born in and it’s values?

Why would you declare commitment to a country just based on the fact that you were born there? Say you were born in North Korea, would you still do it?

I dunno, I’d rather declare my commitment to a country that actually deserves it.