[chaimanmeow]

I would like to see a comparison between the top 10% vegan and omnivores. Most vegans are clueless when it comes to making up deficiencies in typical vegan diets.

Glycine is one of the relevant aminos that is very suboptimal or even scarce in vegetarian and vegan diets. It is also going to be one of the important (and likely most common) limiting factors in tissue repair.

Proline is also needed for collagen production, but not as deficient in Glycine as far as vegetarian diets. Glycine is also highly water soluble and a small molecule; it is constantly lost in urine. The need for glycine goes way beyond collagen production. It is essential for so many biological functions.

Glycine is not considered an "essential amino" because the body produces glycine itself, hence it is overlooked by many. It turns out the body produces only enough to usually barely scrape by. My guess is if another group of vegans were given Glycine (at around 4 to 5 grams/day) supplementation the disadvantage relative to omnivores would be erased.

[UncleOxidant]

I was completely vegan for a couple of years. I went that way to avoid gallbladder surgery - it worked, I had no gallbladder pain on a vegan diet. I Supplemented with B12 and Vitamin D as those are typically low to non-existent in the vegan diet.

But I started to have problems with my teeth chipping - hadn't had that before. I did some calculations and realized that there was no way I was getting anywhere close to the RDA for calcium. So I started supplementing some calcium.

After some gut problems I came to the conclusion that beans weren't working for me. I needed to quit eating legumes for a while which is highly problematic on a vegan diet as they're the major source of protein.

Now I eat a tin of sardines twice/week (and other fish occasionally) which means that technically I'm not vegan any longer. At least the addition of fish did not cause any gallbladder problems.

[chaimanmeow]

I always thought being calcium deficient is very difficult to do. But I've never had a vegan diet. I've always had a significant amount of dairy (yogurt/kefir, cheese) in my diet though, which contains enough calcium. (Pesco-vegetarian for a decade+ was the furtherst I got.)

Sardines are great for DMAE---good brain food as well as other benefits (like plenty of calcium); good choice.

Boron deficiency is far more common than calcium deficiency, and it's very important for bone strength, or rather flexibility and cohesion. I highly recommend some Boron supplementation, since it's so easy to be deficient. Just as with all trace minerals, don't over do it (btwn 2mg and 5mg is a good dose for an avg weight adult). 3mg/day is a very common adult dose---that's what contained in 4.5 apples/day; apples are a really good source of boron.

Vit D supplementation is very important these days especially. But mega supplements (of 10k IU or higher) can cause calcium loss. It's better to take smaller doses spread more evenly/frequently than to take a huge doses every two weeks to monthly. 2000 IU per day with a meal should be fine for most avg weight adults; I see no reason to take more. 5000 IU twice a week, spread about evenly, and with a big meal is fine too. I wouldn't get any more coarse than that. Doses much larger than 5000 IU might cause calcium loss, ie. erosion.

[UncleOxidant]

> I always thought being calcium deficient is very difficult to do.

The RDA is 1000mg (goes higher as you get older, apparentlty). Broccoli is one of the higher vegan sources at about 100mg in a in a cup. Tofu (depending on how it's made) can be around 400mg in a cup. Beyond that tahini (seseme seeds) is pretty high at 420mg in 100 grams. But I wasn't consistently eating those foods every day. When I'd add up my total for a day I'd often come up with maybe 500mg.

[tpoacher]

I can't remember the exact reference here, but I remember a research paper which showed that veganism is associated with an increased risk of cholecystitis.

This is despite the fact that a typical vegan diet is low in fat (which is the typical reason a vegan diet is promoted for gallbladder control). In fact, if I remember correctly, the 'lack' of fat was also the main risk; in that the occasional fact prompted a more violent reaction, thus increasing the risk for an impaction.

I can try and find the article for you if you're interested, though I remember last time I tried to find it it was no easy task trying to sift through the myriad of google results containing vegan blogs recommending vegan diets for cholecystitis... But in any case, if you're going vegan for fear of cholecystitis, be aware it may actually have the reverse outcome!

[UncleOxidant]

In my case I was found to have a gallstone - I was having occasional bouts of serious pain in the upper right abdominal region that were becoming more frequent. Ultrasound revealed gallstone.

But in the couple of weeks before I could get the ultrasound I was essentially eating a vegan diet because I wasn't sure what was causing the pain and I wanted to just concentrate on only eating plants to minimize possible triggers. And then when the results came back and the surgeon told me it was time to schedule the surgery, I realized that I hadn't had any pain on my minimal diet. And so decided to give veganism a try for a month or so to see what would happen - and I continued to have no pain.

I think what it comes down to is that some animal fats cause the gallbladder to contract more vigorously - especially red meat, eggs and dairy in my case would trigger pain. I've heard about the issue you're talking about as it's been suggested that since you no longer have vigorous contractions of the gallbladder the gall tends to pool up there. On the other hand I've also heard bitter foods and beets help with this issue.

[nomadiccoder]

> Most vegans are clueless when it comes to making up deficiencies in typical vegan diets

The same goes for non-vegans.

[cameronh90]

However non-vegans don't normally need to make up for the deficiencies in typical vegan diets.

[chaimanmeow]

yes, and omnivore diets are much much more forgiving as far as avoiding serious deficiencies.