[pound]

re 4) - this is what Tesla does a lot :(

In Model3 you can move front passenger seat forward and up (to clean up in the back) all the way to the point when it pushes on sun visor and cracks the mirror in it. Just by using handles intended to move the seat, no manual pressure or anything, there are no limitation on how far it goes and it's strong enough.. Tesla service centers blame owners for that and charge full replacement cost for the visor :\

[buran77]

One thing people don't understand about cost saving is that it almost always looks good in the short term. You save a lot of money by using commercial grade parts (like eMMC, the dashboard screen, etc.), or by hiring SW and HW engineers who have never worked in the automotive or embedded environment. It's sacrificing quality for quantity and price. But it's usually the customers who pay for it all, one way or another.

From Tesla's perspective the bet might have payed off, by the time this becomes an actual problem for them, they're already over the hump and weathered the worst of times, and can afford to spec them better (one would hope they learned something from this although I have my doubts). In reality probably the real reason this worked for Tesla is Musk's ability to build a fanatical fanbase that can drown out any other voice.

[pound]

Funny thing is while I was okay with buying Tesla, it was Musk's personality attached to it that really bugged me.. So while there is a (quite loud) fanbase, there is also a group of potential Tesla owners who may go other route just due to desire to not be associated with "meme king"

[onethought]

The (actual) founders of Tesla are much more interesting and compelling than Elon in this regard

[buran77]

The idea was that there is a critical mass of people which are vocal enough to help Musk push Tesla's public image past any blunder. No other car manufacturer has this kind of clout.

[throwaway0a5e]

>No other car manufacturer has this kind of clout.

Toyota does.

Though they did put out ~20yr of great cars (emphasis on cars) to get that.

[buran77]

Could be but the clout I'm talking about is how easily they're let off the hook after repeated blunders. I personally doubt Toyota could get away with Tesla's QA for a few years. Hard to judge in practice though.

[mattbee]

Tesla learned from Toyota's playbook! At least they were settling their "unintended acceleration" issue as Tesla were getting started: Deny and minimise systemic faults, recall quietly if ever, and blame it on the user wherever possible. I think they paid billion dollar fine in the US?

I had a 2002 Celica that tried to kill me (gas pedal that got stuck under the floor mat at 90... 95... 100... on the M62) but I loved it too much to hold a grudge.

[throwaway0a5e]

Toyota has fixed the frame on the Tacoma and pinky promised the new ones won't rust out every year since 1990ish and recalled something every year since 2000ish. People find all sorts of ways to hand-wave it away.

And then there was that decade where they made trucks and SUVs with ball joints that would pop out with levels of wear that would be inconsequential had they designed them conventionally.

I guess the above are engineering examples. Their QA is definitely spot on.

[yumraj]

And that is why there is only one real threat, if it is even real, from Apple.

If Apple actually makes a half decent EV, it will put a massive dent in Tesla..

[justicezyx]

The blind trust in apples ability to build a car is not well reasoned as it appears.

If the story from Apple was true, I.e., they actually designed almost all parts of the phone, and give out instructions to implement, then they'll need to be able to design a car as if they were build them, to match iPhone's legendary quality.

Can apple do that? With enough time, sure. But can they catch up Tesla in a meaningful time frame, say 5 years? I doubt it.

[Spooky23]

The other factor to consider is Tesla is always on the ropes, so they will do whatever to survive. I wouldn’t be surprised if the eMMC was selected based on what oem would give them credit.

It’s a shady company that skirts or ignores the law, that has to live in the edge to survive.

[toddmorey]

That's really disappointing to hear.

I've owned a Model S since before the Model 3 arrived and have always fretted that the level of service I received wasn't sustainable at scale.

They AGGRESSIVELY attacked any problems and replaced parts, even when that's not what I asked for.

It's kinda nuts. Just the things I can remember:

- All 4 door handles were replaced with newer versions - I complained about a corner of stitching on the driver's seat and got an entirely new driver's seat - Glovebox cover replaced (to address latch) - Steering wheel controls replaced - Driver display unit replaced entirely - Sunroof replaced

Granted, that's A LOT of parts to address, but their attitude was we'll do anything to make it right. Never once pushed back or questioned. Usually told me that they wanted to replace the part (rather than fix) because Tesla had engineered an improved version. And, to their credit, the new parts they put in seemed to have meaningful improvements and have worked really well.

[andykellr]

As a 2013 Model S owner and now a 2018 and 2021 Model 3 owner (Tesla only family), I agree 100%. I assumed there were a few reasons for the Model S service I received:

1. Small scale

2. Desire to keep early adopters happy

3. 2x the cost of the Model 3

However, my Model 3 service has been really poor.

In my new 2021 the charge port bolt was loose and wouldn't charge. Known issue that took several days and many phone calls to get fixed while traveling. Eventually a service manager got involved and the fix took 5 minutes.

Then they installed Homelink and forgot to plug the front sensors back in. Full self-driving was unavailable for 3 weeks until they returned to plug in the sensors.

Also ordered snow tires from Tesla and the TPMS sensors don't work in my car (2021 uses BLE sensors). They're ordering new sensors and I will need to take my wheels to a tire store to have them installed.

It's been less than 2 months since I took delivery.

Love the car, love the company, an enthusiastic shareholder, but service needs to be fixed.

[camjohnson26]

“Love the car, but” has become a Tesla quality issue meme at this point.

[andykellr]

Of course if they made a Tesla with fewer issues and better service, I'd buy it. My 2018 Model 3 has had almost no issues. No other car company is making anything close so I'll put up with the service for now.

[perl4ever]

I considered a Ford plug-in hybrid and read on the internet how people had fires start because of a flaw with the charging cord, which was probably due to an extremely small cost-cutting choice.

Not all of the "legacy" automakers are Toyota.

[MrMan]

Neither of my gm electric cars have ever been serviced in any way

[walrus01]

Just out of morbid curiosity, what does this visor cost to replace? I'm guessing $299

[pound]

Actually it wasn't too expensive - something like half of that (I don't remember exact number, but mid-100s).

It was more of a feeling that I shouldn't be paying for it at all that displeased me :( (and reddit is full of stories when it happened with others (with the same service centers' experience))

[pound]

One more thing that has no solution now but I'm sure Tesla will not fix it at all or will charge a lot for it:

White interior and black seatbelts. Despite Musks's promises how durable white interior is, seatbelts they use are dyed with I don't know what and they mar the seats. It's permanently baked in and cannot be removed.. Tesla responded long time ago that they are looking for solution, but whatever they will change will definitely not apply to any existing (screwed-up) white interior owners.

[adamcstephens]

Musk really said the white interior is durable? Maybe they got a deal on white material and wanted to sucker people into buying it.

[pound]

Tbh, it actually is okay. After about two years most prominent marks we have on them are those left by seatbelts.

[jbob2000]

Haha, if you think that's bad, try driving a jeep. You don't even have to drive it for it to break!

[Foomf]

This is exactly my experience with the jeep my family had. However, there's a big caveat: the jeep engine itself was perfect. Over the 15 or so years we had it, that engine was solid. Everything else in the jeep failed at some point or another, and had nothing to do with driving. I have a few examples off the top of my head: The heated seats died after a few months. The insides of the car doors became detached because the glue wasn't strong enough. One by one the dashboard knobs all split apart at one point or another. We were a normal family, there were no crazy kids or pets in it that went nuts on the inside. Our jeep just kind of disintegrated around us, and none of the problems had to do with actually driving the jeep. So yes, we didn't even need to drive it for it to fall apart.

[sokoloff]

The 4.0 liter L6 was a great engine. The 5.2/5.9 liter V8 was almost exactly the opposite of that.

[SigmundA]

My Jeep Wrangler does not have any physical interference issues regarding seats breaking mirrors and the only issue I have had is the rear main seal started leaking and they happily replaced under warranty at 4 years and 6 months no questions asked.

[camjohnson26]

My jeep has 60k miles and never any issues

[fl0wenol]

Even as an anecdote, that's not impressive.

[dylan604]

It is for a Jeep though

[camjohnson26]

Ok? Counter example to “breaks even if you don’t drive it”

[TheSpiceIsLife]

"There's only one Jeep" because all the others fell apart.