[throwaway0a5e]

Toyota has fixed the frame on the Tacoma and pinky promised the new ones won't rust out every year since 1990ish and recalled something every year since 2000ish. People find all sorts of ways to hand-wave it away.

And then there was that decade where they made trucks and SUVs with ball joints that would pop out with levels of wear that would be inconsequential had they designed them conventionally.

I guess the above are engineering examples. Their QA is definitely spot on.

[buran77]

Don't leave out the scale. Toyota sells almost 10 million vehicles per year across some dozens of models. Tacoma makes about 2% of that. Any manufacturer might have a few problematic models in their lineup even if mostly specific model years. But when it's across the board you have a problem. It's not just one factory, one model, one year, one batch. It's not an exception, it's the rule. You can twist and turn it until the situation looks the same between the 2 brands but if we're being honest, it's not.

[throwaway0a5e]

If anything your readiness to excuse Toyota's faults is proving my point.

They've had 40yr to fix the problem. Still not fixed. We'll have to wait a few years to see if they fixed it this year.

Yes the Tacoma is small compared to their global presence.

The Focus is small compared to Ford's global presence and they still got a ton of crap for that transmission. Nissan gets crap for their CVTs that aren't really that bad anymore. Subaru gets crap about head gasket and transmission issues they mostly cleaned up a decade ago.

My point is that Tesla is at say a 5 and the fanboys pump up their reputation so that they look like a 6. Toyota is at say a 7 and the blind fanboys pump it up to an 8. It's not about who's better. My point is that this blind fanboyism that guards a reputation in the face of mis-steps isn't something unique to Tesla or the cult of Musk.

If anything the common factor is upper middle class allure. Nothing rounds out a driveway in a nice school district like a Model 3 paired with a Toyota pickup or SUV. Though I have no idea whether it's the cause or the effect or maybe a feedback loop.

[buran77]

> If anything your readiness to excuse Toyota's faults is proving my point.

I'm not defending Toyota, I'm only attacking your argument, which I hope is fair game. The problem with it is that it fails to clear the bar for basically any major manufacturer out there. Put Renault or Volkswagen in there and the situation stays the same. Everyone has a few problematic models or years that get some (un)warranted criticism but you really have to question a manufacturer's QA when the problems are across the board, as evidenced by Tesla using low grade parts across the board. That's one thing what sets Tesla apart from the competition: they cut costs and corners anywhere they can to ship more units, because that's what drives share prices up.

And you'll never see Renault's CEO claim that their cars will cure cancer starting next year and a cult following of people hyping and believing it, or vitriolically pouncing on any unsuspecting commenter or article criticizing Renault. That's the second thing that sets Tesla apart from their competition: they can afford to consistently ship compromised products because their image can absorb anything.

On any of the rash of EV sites that popped up over the past few years just linking to an NHTSA or IIHS report contradicting the article's premise could get you an instant ban. So the articles stay there with the misleading claims because that's what comes up in an internet search.

[perl4ever]

>They've had 40yr to fix the problem. Still not fixed.

This seems disingenuous to me, as if they're making 2021 Tacomas unchanged since 1980.

[perl4ever]

I think it's kind of like the "risk homeostasis" thing people talk about. If you have really good engineers, then you don't just let them design the greatest vehicle possible, you ask them to cut costs from that design. And because they're really good, they can make things work that others couldn't, and so they get pushed harder, until something goes wrong on a large scale, because there were tradeoffs that couldn't be eliminated.

[carlmr]

How are the numbers cars sold vs cars recalled though? Toyota is one of the largest car producers in the world while Tesla is tiny by comparison.