[pound]

Funny thing is while I was okay with buying Tesla, it was Musk's personality attached to it that really bugged me.. So while there is a (quite loud) fanbase, there is also a group of potential Tesla owners who may go other route just due to desire to not be associated with "meme king"

[onethought]

The (actual) founders of Tesla are much more interesting and compelling than Elon in this regard

[buran77]

The idea was that there is a critical mass of people which are vocal enough to help Musk push Tesla's public image past any blunder. No other car manufacturer has this kind of clout.

[throwaway0a5e]

>No other car manufacturer has this kind of clout.

Toyota does.

Though they did put out ~20yr of great cars (emphasis on cars) to get that.

[buran77]

Could be but the clout I'm talking about is how easily they're let off the hook after repeated blunders. I personally doubt Toyota could get away with Tesla's QA for a few years. Hard to judge in practice though.

[mattbee]

Tesla learned from Toyota's playbook! At least they were settling their "unintended acceleration" issue as Tesla were getting started: Deny and minimise systemic faults, recall quietly if ever, and blame it on the user wherever possible. I think they paid billion dollar fine in the US?

I had a 2002 Celica that tried to kill me (gas pedal that got stuck under the floor mat at 90... 95... 100... on the M62) but I loved it too much to hold a grudge.

[perl4ever]

I had a Honda years ago that had a gas pedal that hinged at the floor. And when the Toyota gas pedal thing was in the news, I was like "ha, they cheaped out" and was glad I had a Honda. Recently, I believe Honda has switched to the pedal hinging from above though.

But I have a hard time taking many complaints seriously. If you have a 600 hp sports car, sure, a stuck gas pedal could kill you before you know what happened. But a 2002 Celica at 90 (mph or kph) - you expect me to believe that the brakes can't overcome the engine, and you can't shift to neutral before it goes into orbit?

[mattbee]

The official number of suspected deaths connected to the issue in the US alone was 89. I'm not sure why you wouldn't take it seriously.

[throwaway0a5e]

Toyota has fixed the frame on the Tacoma and pinky promised the new ones won't rust out every year since 1990ish and recalled something every year since 2000ish. People find all sorts of ways to hand-wave it away.

And then there was that decade where they made trucks and SUVs with ball joints that would pop out with levels of wear that would be inconsequential had they designed them conventionally.

I guess the above are engineering examples. Their QA is definitely spot on.

[buran77]

Don't leave out the scale. Toyota sells almost 10 million vehicles per year across some dozens of models. Tacoma makes about 2% of that. Any manufacturer might have a few problematic models in their lineup even if mostly specific model years. But when it's across the board you have a problem. It's not just one factory, one model, one year, one batch. It's not an exception, it's the rule. You can twist and turn it until the situation looks the same between the 2 brands but if we're being honest, it's not.

[throwaway0a5e]

If anything your readiness to excuse Toyota's faults is proving my point.

They've had 40yr to fix the problem. Still not fixed. We'll have to wait a few years to see if they fixed it this year.

Yes the Tacoma is small compared to their global presence.

The Focus is small compared to Ford's global presence and they still got a ton of crap for that transmission. Nissan gets crap for their CVTs that aren't really that bad anymore. Subaru gets crap about head gasket and transmission issues they mostly cleaned up a decade ago.

My point is that Tesla is at say a 5 and the fanboys pump up their reputation so that they look like a 6. Toyota is at say a 7 and the blind fanboys pump it up to an 8. It's not about who's better. My point is that this blind fanboyism that guards a reputation in the face of mis-steps isn't something unique to Tesla or the cult of Musk.

If anything the common factor is upper middle class allure. Nothing rounds out a driveway in a nice school district like a Model 3 paired with a Toyota pickup or SUV. Though I have no idea whether it's the cause or the effect or maybe a feedback loop.

[perl4ever]

I think it's kind of like the "risk homeostasis" thing people talk about. If you have really good engineers, then you don't just let them design the greatest vehicle possible, you ask them to cut costs from that design. And because they're really good, they can make things work that others couldn't, and so they get pushed harder, until something goes wrong on a large scale, because there were tradeoffs that couldn't be eliminated.

[carlmr]

How are the numbers cars sold vs cars recalled though? Toyota is one of the largest car producers in the world while Tesla is tiny by comparison.

[yumraj]

And that is why there is only one real threat, if it is even real, from Apple.

If Apple actually makes a half decent EV, it will put a massive dent in Tesla..

[justicezyx]

The blind trust in apples ability to build a car is not well reasoned as it appears.

If the story from Apple was true, I.e., they actually designed almost all parts of the phone, and give out instructions to implement, then they'll need to be able to design a car as if they were build them, to match iPhone's legendary quality.

Can apple do that? With enough time, sure. But can they catch up Tesla in a meaningful time frame, say 5 years? I doubt it.