[ncmncm]

The danger is that the apparent heights of "the piles" are badly skewed by bias: the evidence for what you favor naturally feels more solid, while evidence that contradicts it, or that it entirely fails to predict, proves very easy to ignore indefinitely.

We know that a conductor moving in a magnetic field produces a voltage, and knowing the strength of the field and the motion, we know absolutely the voltage produced. Applied to moons of Jupiter and Saturn, we expect forces much larger than surface gravity of the moons, and therefore material leaving the poles. But when we find it occurring, we talk about "volcanoes" and "geysers". We carefully ignore that the volcanoes drift about like rubber ducks in the bath. We carefully ignore collimation that would need for the geysers to be shot from perfect paraboloid-shaped nozzles. It is easiest to just agree not to talk about perfect collimation, because it doesn't lead in a comforting direction.

Socially, people like a consensus. A challenger needs "extraordinary" evidence to displace it. But Nature doesn't play favorites: any alternative that accounts for all the established evidence is on equal footing. A consensus in the absence of compelling evidence, or in the presence of incompatible evidence, should make us suspicious that the consensus is a product not of evidence, but of biased preference. Seeing evidence carefully ignored should make us suspicious.

I am not aware of carefully-ignored evidence in the case of galaxy rotational anomalies, but this paper may be rubbing our noses in examples.

Nature is just as happy for all the leading theories to be wrong, and for us not to have invented the right one yet. The consensus can be wrong without any of the alternatives being right. It is discomforting to find yourself wrong, but science isn't about comfort.

[matthewdgreen]

The counterweight to this is that there's an enormous prestige benefit for any scientist who conclusively overturns the established scientific consensus. This is why Einstein became so famous in his lifetime: not just because he had some elegant theories, but because he had theories that unambiguously matched the experimental evidence (and even offered new predictions) in ways the previous scientific consensus could not. And even though a few skeptics tried to resist his ideas, the scientific consensus worked in exactly the ways we'd expect it to as the evidence came in.

I have no idea what the situation is with current theories on the motion of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn. I'm guessing you also have an incomplete picture of the evidence, but you've got an alternative pet theory that explains some inconsistencies in the consensus theory. I'm also guessing your theory isn't a slam dunk, i.e., that there's good evidence against it and/or there's a distinct lack of evidence in favor of it. But I strongly suspect you're not going to present me with all of the negative evidence for your own theory in an HN comment: I would have to get the impressions of other people in the field in order to actually get a fair evaluation of the evidence. That's what scientific consensus is supposed to offer, and as imperfect as it is, it usually works better than trusting the opinions of a single enthusiast.

[ncmncm]

Motions of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn? Opinions of enthusiasts with pet theories? What are you talking about?

You illustrate my point better than I could ever explain.

[nl]

ncmncm>>> ... Applied to moons of Jupiter and Saturn ... [implications that there is something scientists are missing about "material leaving the poles"]

matthewdgreen>> ... I have no idea what the situation is with current theories on the motion of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn....

ncmncm> Motions of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn? Opinions of enthusiasts with pet theories? What are you talking about?

It was pretty clear to me what @matthewdgreen was talking about.

[ncmncm]

Although clearly nothing about what I wrote.

[nl]

He addressed exactly what you wrote.

(Unless you mean whatever your pet theory is about gravity or magmatism or whatever, and he addressed why that isn't worth discussing too).

[ncmncm]

You illustrate my point, as well, and so forcefully!

Electro-"magma"-tism has not been anybody's pet theory for going on 150 years.

[matthewdgreen]

Please try to explain.

[tsimionescu]

If this is some electrical universe support, I think that's a good example of why it's important to know and understand the scientific consensus.

There are all sorts of minor details that can be matched to all sorts of fine theories, but there is almost always overwhelming evidence in other places that contradicts them. Trying to reinvent physics from the ground up by picking a few details is a fool's errand.

In particular, EU can't explain gravitational lensing, it can't explain the equality of gravitational mass and inertial mass, and these are just some of the most obvious.

[ncmncm]

Gravitational lensing??? Inertial mass??? Are Jovian moons supposed to be involved in that now? What are you talking about?

[tsimionescu]

I'm saying that, even if it were possible for the electrical force to explain the motion of some moon, it still can't explain other things that gravity can, and I gave two examples of phenomena that general relativity explains that en electrical universe doesn't.

But perhaps I misinterpreted your post. I took it initially to mean that you believe electrical interactions to be a better explanation than gravity for the movement of those moons - a theory that actually exists out there, called 'Electrical Universe'.

If instead you simply meant something much more specific, that there are electrical interactions that could explain mass ejections seen on these moons better than some geological explanations, then I apologize for my tangent.

[ncmncm]

Apology welcome.

The point was a specific example of evidence (collimated fluid motion) not consistent with descriptions of the cause of the motion ("geysers") but avoided as a consequence of discomfort with its implications.

Your comments illustrated the phenomenon with impressive clarity: wholly avoiding mention of anything even peripherally relevant, while promoting prejudicial distractions.