[the_monocle]

Two universal things that I discovered for me personally that give my life deeper meaning are friendship and art. I feel like no matter what societal status I have, how much money I have or in what state my body is I can always get satisfaction in life through those two means. Sucks that art galleries are closed during covid but movies and tv shows also work well (currently watching some trippy animes from the 90s to scratch my itch).

[zant]

I would add self-enhancement to this. I recently started to exercise with rings and go on deeper math, and every progress is very rewarding. I think this apply to anything one may choose.

[gbrown]

I was talking with my brother about this, and he called it “intellectual hedonism”. Never really thought about it that way, but it’s not entirely incorrect.

[fairity]

I've thought about this a bit and came to the same conclusion. Most people who value self-growth are ultimately doing so as a means to achieve vain values. That is, the reason you want to continue growing is because you want to be better than others, or build wealth or status. You may trick your mind into thinking you genuinely enjoy self-improvement, but I've found that the moment to moment experience of self-improvement is often grueling and if you enjoy the process, it's most likely because of one of these vain values. The exception is if you happened to have parents who instilled self-growth as a primary value throughout your childhood -- then, it will actually feel like an end in of itself.

Ultimately, I think people will be better off choosing intrinsic values that are not conditional on external forces or comparison to others. That said, as long as you can achieve your values, however vain they may be, more power to you!

[lambda_obrien]

I realized recently that I enjoy learning new programming languages, not even using them sometimes. I'll read all the tutorials and documentation, get it running on my PC, then find a new language I like more later and dump this one. Is that hedonistic, such that I learn simply for the joy of learning, and probably forget a lot of what I learned later? If so, then am I deluding myself into doing so for others somehow, even though no one who knows me as a person even cares about programming languages or knows that I am into them?

Frankly speaking, your comment comes off a bit dickish to me, especially this part:

> You may trick your mind into thinking you genuinely enjoy self-improvement

[fairity]

> Frankly speaking, your comment comes off a bit dickish to me, especially this part:

Appreciate the feedback. I'm not trying to be a dick. I should have replaced "you" with "I" in my response.

For those who've found themselves stuck in the rat race, including myself, I think it's important to answer the question: Why is wealth and social status a poor value system?

My answer is: because wealth and social status are largely outside of my control.

Put another way, values are only bad insofar as they are hard to achieve.

Ok, then, the question is: What are better values than wealth and social status?

In my search for an answer to this question, I read Carol Dweck's book "Growth Mindset" where she argues that self-growth, in of itself, is a worthwhile value.

At first, I was convinced. Aha, I just need to value growth. Then, I will have motivation to engage in all these challenging activities AND I have a value that is entirely within my control (which makes it a good value). After all, I can grow as a person without fail.

Alas, after further reflection and trying to adopt this mindset, I realized that valuing self-growth, for me, was just a way of hiding from my true values: wealth and social status. That is, no matter how hard I tried to focus on growth as an end in of itself, I was always secretly still chasing after wealth and social status. Self-growth, for me, was just a way to disguise rat-race values. Put another way, Dweck's school of psychology tries to train you to focus on the means instead of the ends.

In order to escape the rat race, I believe you have to truly replace your old values with intrinsic values that are 1) ends in of themselves and 2) within your control.

[marnett]

I find your reasoning very thorough, succinct, and easy to follow. Thank you for expanding. I am interested in what you have explored, for yourself, to replace the old world values with exclusively intrinsic values?

As an aside, the mindset you describe, of only focusing on that which one can control, is referred to in psychology as having an Internal Locus of Control vs an External Locus of Control.

[AznHisoka]

Which animes?

[the_monocle]

Actually right now its only one anime! Its "Revolutionary Girl Utena". The visuals are gorgeous, the premise of the anime is super interesting (A girl was saved by a prince when she was small and then decided to become like him while she waits for him to return by wearing male clothes and acting like a hero) and the whole story is super trippy in general. Also it has many references to art and religion[1][2]. I'm at around the half point right now, but can definitely recommend!

[1]https://twitter.com/ohtori_nu/status/1068525697713356804

[2]https://ohtori.nu/analysis/01_meike_disciples_of_abraxas_4.h... (The anime quotes from the famous german author Herman Hesse)