[tpmx]

Thanks - I forgot to specify that I'm looking for a standalone unit. The equivalent top-of-the-line standalone Siemens microwave requires one extra button press. And it doesn't have the inverter tech. (I think Bosch/Siemens merged their business units in this area.)

[magicalhippo]

Ah, don't know about stand-alone. Hopefully it'll be there soon tho, these things trickle down.

Yes, Bosch and Siemens are one and the same, at least for a lot of models. Mostly just a single letter different in the model number and red vs blue highlights where relevant (say dishwasher).

Was told at least here in Norway that Siemens was targeted more towards kitchen builders, while Bosch was targeted for consumers directly.

[tpmx]

> these things trickle down

Ah yes, I forgot that it's somehow aspirational to have a built-in microwave-oven now, so because of that it can cost €500 and then it's possible to spend $10 licensing those patents/tech.

I hate this world. :)

[magicalhippo]

Heh, I meant trickle down as in the model we got was the top of the line, and the lower ends seem to have the rotary thing so I assume good old electronics there.

We chose built-in mainly because a built-in regular oven was better in terms of ergonomics for my gf, and due to specific constraints of our rather small kitchen a built-in micro above it was the best solution.

[rootusrootus]

> aspirational to have a built-in microwave-oven now

The funny thing is, a lot of built-in microwaves aren't really built-in. They're just countertop models that sit in a cupboard with a predictable opening size, and it comes with a trim kit to make it built-in. You can totally just buy it without the trim kit and set it on the counter.

[OJFord]

What would 'really' built-in mean? This is how all fitted units (fridge/freezer, dishwasher, oven, ...) work.

It makes even more sense to use a common model for microwaves and ovens than it does for the others, since they don't need or want fixings for mounting a door over them.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out a lot of e.g. fridges sold with (cosmetic) doors are actually the same model just with that extra part using the same fixings as the fitted cabinet doors.

[rootusrootus]

> What would 'really' built-in mean?

This is subjective, of course. IMO a real built-in appliance wouldn't have feet on the bottom that it sits on, wouldn't have finished sides and back, it would be purpose-built to only work within cabinetry designed for that purpose.

My ovens don't work that way, as far as I know. It requires a certain opening, but it isn't designed to be free -standing so it couldn't be set on the floor. At least not safely. It's designed from the ground up to be inside a cabinet, there isn't just a trim kit to fake it.

My dishwasher for sure isn't designed to be free-standing. It would tip over when you opened the door. It does have feet, but it requires attachment to the counter. And if you pull it out, you are looking directly at the tub, not finished sides.

Not sure about the fitted fridges. Mine is not that fancy, so it's designed to be standalone. It sits inside a cabinet that is designed to accommodate it, but not as a built-in.

[OJFord]

I replaced my built-in oven recently, and it said it could also be (approved for use I assume that means) 'built-under'; I didn't check but I assume you just get screw-in feet, slide it under the counter/hob, then put the kickboard back. Or maybe no feet it just goes in a cabinet with the door off/drawers out.

I suppose my point really was just that it's all standard sizes, it's not like fitted kitchens are custom built by electricians as well as cabinet makers with the guts hanging out of appliances, no enclosure to speak of.

It's shocking what these things cost though, compared to BOM. Ovens from £100-400 are basically all the same just with different fascias.. but if your kitchen is exposed enough that you don't want the oven fascia to look crap.. what can you do put stump up?