[tpmx]

Everything related to Microwave ovens seems to have stalled - because of patents?

I wanted to buy a microwave oven with these two features:

a) Panasonic-style inverter tech - actual granular power control rather than just pausing for 10 seconds now and then (ultra-low frequency PWM) when running at less than 100% power.

b) Sharp-style "start immediately and run for 30-60 secs more for every button press" start button functionality

I've tried really hard to find a Microwave oven in Europe that does both a + b. It doesn't seem to exist.

[magicalhippo]

We have a Bosch BFL834GC1[1] which I think has the inverter thing you're talking about. It does not have a swivel and from my experience heats quite nicely. I often use the lower settings like 180W for more delicate heating.

Pressing start sets to to run for 60 seconds by default, but to change the time you have to use the wheel. Pressing start again pauses it. So maybe that's a no-go for you.

[1]: https://www.bosch-home.no/produktliste/komfyr-ovn-platetopp-... (NO site)

https://www.bosch-home.com/de/produktliste/zu-allen-accent-l... (DE site)

[tpmx]

Thanks - I forgot to specify that I'm looking for a standalone unit. The equivalent top-of-the-line standalone Siemens microwave requires one extra button press. And it doesn't have the inverter tech. (I think Bosch/Siemens merged their business units in this area.)

[magicalhippo]

Ah, don't know about stand-alone. Hopefully it'll be there soon tho, these things trickle down.

Yes, Bosch and Siemens are one and the same, at least for a lot of models. Mostly just a single letter different in the model number and red vs blue highlights where relevant (say dishwasher).

Was told at least here in Norway that Siemens was targeted more towards kitchen builders, while Bosch was targeted for consumers directly.

[tpmx]

> these things trickle down

Ah yes, I forgot that it's somehow aspirational to have a built-in microwave-oven now, so because of that it can cost €500 and then it's possible to spend $10 licensing those patents/tech.

I hate this world. :)

[magicalhippo]

Heh, I meant trickle down as in the model we got was the top of the line, and the lower ends seem to have the rotary thing so I assume good old electronics there.

We chose built-in mainly because a built-in regular oven was better in terms of ergonomics for my gf, and due to specific constraints of our rather small kitchen a built-in micro above it was the best solution.

[rootusrootus]

> aspirational to have a built-in microwave-oven now

The funny thing is, a lot of built-in microwaves aren't really built-in. They're just countertop models that sit in a cupboard with a predictable opening size, and it comes with a trim kit to make it built-in. You can totally just buy it without the trim kit and set it on the counter.

[OJFord]

What would 'really' built-in mean? This is how all fitted units (fridge/freezer, dishwasher, oven, ...) work.

It makes even more sense to use a common model for microwaves and ovens than it does for the others, since they don't need or want fixings for mounting a door over them.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out a lot of e.g. fridges sold with (cosmetic) doors are actually the same model just with that extra part using the same fixings as the fitted cabinet doors.

[Wistar]

Look at LG's NeoChef "Smart Inverter Magnetron" models. I have the .9 cu ft one. Inverter tech plus starts immediately and two "add time" controls: one adds in 30 second increments and a separate control that adds OR subtracts cooking time in 10 second intervals. We've had it about two years now, use the heck out of it and it is, unquestionably, the best microwave we've ever had. Plus, it looks good in stainless and black glass. About $130.

https://www.lg.com/us/counter-top-microwave

[tpmx]

Intriguing. Maybe I'll have to import it from the US... (and then run it via some 230V/50 Hz to 110V/60 Hz thingie).

[bdonlan]

Converting between different grid frequencies would need a rectifier/inverter or rotary converter - and one that can handle high power (1200W+ sustained) as well. That's quite a bit of equipment to run just a microwave...

Edit: Looks like units capable of dealing with these kinds of power specs run for around $2300 USD, e.g. http://www.gohz.com/2kva-frequency-converter

[Wistar]

Do they not sell LG where you are?

[tpmx]

They do, but unfortunately it seems like household products that the global manufacturers offer are very different region to region. I guess the Americas and Asia get the high-end microwave ovens... (but they're also quite different, I'm sure.)

[Wistar]

A local appliance dealer who I have come to know on a personal level turned me on to the LG and special-ordered it for me. I had originally asked him about Panasonic inverter microwaves but he dissuaded me saying that the Panasonic ovens suffered from reliability problems.

The inverter cooking is fantastic and makes the oven a lot more useful for serious cooking. I will use 20-40% power for re-heating foods over a longer time and the results are that there are none of the weird molten-hot and still-cold pockets of food. Pre-packaged foods whose directions are, say, "heat for 3 minutes," I will instead heat for 5-6 minutes at 40-50% power and the results are considerably more consistent. Plus, I have found that I can get sous vide-like results at low and long settings. For example, I have discovered that heating a filet mignon cut gently at 10-20%, and periodically halting cooking for a minute to let heat distribute evenly through the cut, and then continuing slowly until it temps at 115°F, and then searing on rocket-hot cast iron produces great results. Better than sous vide, at least for beef tenderloin.

I know I will never go with a non-inverter microwave again as it turns a blunt instrument into a device capable of truly nuanced cooking. If something is going to tie-up counter space, it had better be worth it and the LG is worth it.

The next thing I am looking at is the Anova Precision Combi-Oven. https://anovaculinary.com/anova-precision-oven/

[thelazydogsback]

So the Anova is a combo dry convection and steam oven, correct? (Not microwave) Looks interesting.

I was wondering also if you know a model that combined variable inverter (not duty-cycle) microwave output, convection, and steam-sensor.

thanks for the info!

[shellfishgene]

They seem to sell the Neochef models in Germany, what's different about them?

[tpmx]

Ah, you're right! Thanks.

[TMWNN]

> Everything related to Microwave ovens seems to have stalled - because of patents?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiS27feX8o0

[beervirus]

What’s wrong with the low frequency PWM solution?

[tpmx]

It's not optimal. Edit: Imagine trying to heat e.g. a pastry carefully. 10 seconds at full power is enough to make it start boiling, partially, because of the uneven microwave radiation pattern. Other parts will be cold.

[ori_b]

This is a fundamental problem with standing waves in microwave ovens, and isn't really affected by pwm. You need to change the mean free path.

[tpmx]

I've never tried a Panasonic inverter-style microwave oven, but I imagine it would solve this problem. It would be able to run at like say 30% for 30s while rotating the contents.

[sitharus]

I have a Panasonic inverter microwave, and it does solve the problem quite well. The standing waves aren't solved, but the lower continual heating lets the energy conduct in the food without overheating parts.