[troughway]

From the intro blurb:

>Wim Hof's teachings about breath work and the health benefits of cold plunges have attracted millions of followers who swear it has cured everything from depression to diabetes and makes them happier and stronger.

If it cured diabetes, certainly there is a way to scientifically confirm this rather than merely "swearing" it is so.

And if it did, that would be a breakthrough of unthinkable proportions.

So, can we get some evidence rather than hearsay?

[brian_cunnie]

I have type II diabetes, and swimming in cold water (SF Bay, temperatures 50°-65° F 10°-18° C) 3 times a week for six years has not changed my A1c (measurement of diabetes).

No one is "cured" of type II diabetes (exception: gestational diabetes). The best you can hope for is not to have to take meds, but the price you pay is an exercise regimen and an extremely disciplined diet (I haven't eaten rice, bread, pasta, or potatoes in 9 years). I don't take meds.

[starwatch]

I believe there's a low-calorie treatment pioneered by a research group out of Oxford University a few years ago. The treatment was shown to send type II into remission.

It's currently available on the NHS in the UK: https://www.england.nhs.uk/diabetes/treatment-care/low-calor...

[brian_cunnie]

The research group's definition of remission is, IIRC, "the diabetic no longer needs to take meds", e.g. metformin.

But this doesn't mean they're cured. For example, they can't binge on chocolate cake or pizza.

Instead, rather than using medicine to control their blood sugar, they use a strict diet & exercise.

I'm a type II diabetic, and when I saw my doctor with a good A1c (5.8), she said, "Another doctor wouldn't be able to tell you were diabetic looking at these numbers. But make no mistake: you can't go back to your old ways of eating, or else it'll all come back. Those days are over."

My metabolism is permanently broken. The symptoms are in remission, but I'm by no means cured.

[vram22]

>The treatment was shown to send type II into remission.

Does that mean the same as cured?

Edit: The linked article says:

>and even achieve remission (no longer have diabetes)

[starwatch]

Not an expert on this, but remission is defined as:

> a temporary diminution of the severity of disease or pain.

My understanding is that after the treatment, and while in remission, people would need to maintain a healthy lifestyle to avoid relapse. It's still early days for this treatment so I'd guess that they're being cautious with their language.

[vram22]

Got it, and I think yours closer to the real meaning than what the article says - based on having read that word in context multiple times.

[vram22]

>the price you pay is an exercise regimen

I read somewhere that N. Vittal, a prominent Indian civil servant, controlled his diabetes by walking a lot, daily.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/N._Vittal

>and an extremely disciplined diet (I haven't eaten rice, bread, pasta, or potatoes in 9 years).

What about other forms of wheat products like semolina, couscous, etc? Other cereal grains?

[brian_cunnie]

W.r.t. walking. Yes, it's a wonderful way to bring down your blood sugar. I once ate too much carbs, and my blood sugar spiked to 180 (I shouldn't let it get over 160, normal people's blood sugar rarely go over 120). I was able to bring it down 50 points, to 130, by walking vigorously for 1/2 hour.

> What about other forms of wheat products like semolina, couscous, etc? Other cereal grains?

I stay away from them, but I haven't done a rigorous study. I know that, as far as diabetes is concerned, white rice is terrible for you, and brown rice is just as bad.

In general the only carbo-foods I'm comfortable with are legumes (beans) because their carbs take longer to digest.

[vram22]

Interesting, thanks.

[FPGAhacker]

If you don't mind sharing, what do you eat?

[brian_cunnie]

Every morning:

- 1 pint milk - coffee - 1/4 cup oatmeal

During the day, a big salad consisting of the following:

- kale - romaine lettuce - baby spinach - butter lettuce - arugula - carrots - mushrooms - sweet potato ribbons (uncooked) - shaved parmesan cheese - sunflower seeds - pumpkin seeds - peanuts - salt - pepper - unbelievable amounts of olive oil - avocado

Snacks:

- apples (1 or 2) - blueberries

Once a week I might have eggs & bacon, or a quest bar (low carb), or diet soda (I still have a sweet tooth)

[YeGoblynQueenne]

>> unbelievable amounts of olive oil

Out of curiosity, how come?

I have a close relative who has kidney disease and was forced to cut all salt from their diet. I cook for them (I don't mind unsalted food myself). I think I understand a thing or two about such a drastic change to one's lifestyle. It's not an easy thing. My relative was mad for everything salty - cheese, cured meats, chips, everything. But they have found the discipline to cut it all off. Unfortunately, cutting salt from one's diet doesn't bring kidney disease into remission. I don't believe anything does :/ Anyway, more power to you and all that.

[vram22]

That's an unusual diet, it seems. So did you calculate the weight in grams (and fractions thereof) of all nutrients humans need, or just use gut feel to work out the meal ingredients, particularly in the salad?

[anitil]

The claims by and around Wim Hof are often pretty absurd. I wouldn't go so far as to call him a charlatan, but there's a sliding scale and he's more to one side than the other.

I'm sure there's _some_ benefit to breathing techniques, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were at about the level of 'general exercise and wellbeing'.

[ekanes]

Have you actually looked into it? The stuff he's doing is quite scientifically controlled/verified. He's controlling his autonomic nervous system in interesting ways, and his advanced students are doing the same thing.

[pnw_hazor]

Prolly Type 2 Diabetes which can be "cured" by making a major lifestyle changes.

I know a few people who have went to certified Wim Hof training weekends. Doesn't sound like my cup of tea.

[swader999]

Just try the breathing a few times a week. Don't do it driving or close to water. I outlined it above, takes ten minutes. You'll feel great. I have beaten back colds I have felt coming on several times with it.