[jarin]

When designers grouse about losing business to 99designs, they should try to keep in mind that they're grousing about losing customers who only have $300 to spend on a logo design, or $500 to spend on a web design.

You're really just losing cheap customers. Cheap customers are not fun to work with.

[jasonkester]

Indeed. I can't tell you how much business I've lost over the years as a result of potential clients going to RentACoder.com. It must be literally hundreds of dollars by now.

Never ever compete on price. That's rule number one in the consulting industry. If there's a group of people racing to the bottom on price, then by definition they're not your competition.

[Jd]

Err, from your website:

"We offer... consulting services at rates that are much less than you might find from other US based software firms"

[jasonkester]

Ah, but the firms I'm competing with charge >$300/hr, so I can come in under them and still make a good living.

You'll notice that nowhere do I say we're prepared to compete against teams of highschool kids in Bangladesh on price.

[mikeryan]

So you only compete on price with those who charge more then you? ;-)

[jasonkester]

Sure. It's easier to win that way.

I still like to think I'm competing on quality rather than price. The fact that I bill less for my time when I've got sand between my toes is frankly a bit of a gimmick. Some clients see it as a positive that they're contributing to my suntan.

[jarin]

I don't see anything wrong with doing a little positioning.

[sudont]

You're exactly correct, but the mindset is much different.

Shit breaks when something's poorly coded, and has to be fixed (though, the DailyWTF would suggest otherwise). Whereas most people don't care if something's poorly designed and feel that a designer isn't necessary to just get it out there. Designers are fretting about losing mid/small-sized clients to stock templates, much in the same way that most businesses pre-DTP would buy stock letterhead and forms.

It's irrational, but when all of the clients talk about getting rid of the prissy designer one gets jumpy.

[_delirium]

True, but techies tend not to mind people using off-the-shelf technical solutions either, even if they're sort of a poor fit compared to custom coding. There are whole piles of Wordpress blogs and MediaWiki installations where maybe a Wordpress blog or MediaWiki installation isn't the ideal backing software for what the site aims to do, but meh, if it works well enough and fits the budget, it's a legitimate choice.

[notahacker]

Isn't it all the more galling for them to see UK government initiatives encouraging businesses to treat them as cheap, disposable commodities? For the record, I think 99designs or Wordpress templates are fine for most small businesses who shouldn't and won't pay more.

But cheap customers are often better than no customers, and a friend of mine picked up some of his larger accounts starting off with some loss leader logo design promotions.

[roc]

I don't follow.

It's galling for the UK government to promote a service to the exact types of businesses that you think that service is fine for?

I mean, didn't they recommend it on a resource dedicated to start-ups?

[notahacker]

From a designer's point of view yes; just because it doesn't really matter to Bob's Plumbing whether they get the logo done cheaply by their local print shop or get 30 designs by Filipino teenagers doesn't mean their local print shop is going to be delighted at the loss of £200 revenue and a chance to upsell some business cards. Especially not when the site purports to be encouraging an "enterprise-led recovery" for the economy

They also might take exception to the notion that race-to-the-bottom logo work fits under the site's "creating a brand" heading; 99designs is exactly the resource for businesses where visual branding doesn't matter much (which in fairness is a lot of them).

[roc]

I see what you're saying now.

I considered a start-up roughly equivalent to the sort of cash-strapped small business you think 99designs is fine for.

Whereas you're primarily drawing a line between start-ups and those other businesses.

[saidulislam]

That's a wrong way to look at it. Cheap customers? Think again. Million and billion dollar companies are not going to post their projects on 99designs. I would say it's mostly for mom n pop type small startup businesses. Even if the big guys do use that service, I still don't see any issue with it.

I have used 99designs and I didn't like it. My personal opinion, based on my little experience, is it is costly for the services offered. For the record, I have used ODesk, Elance and Freelancer too. When I use these outsourcing sites (including 99designs), I look at both cost and service. Quality, trust, dedication, promptness and professionalism are all part of service. Yes cost is a very important factor. When you have your own business and you need service, like me, you would be looking at these factors carefully too. You look at the service, compare and then you decide on price. It's a capitalistic free economy where no one can dictate a price. Price is dictated by the demands and what the consumers are willing to pay.

I will give you a real life example, my example. I needed some graphic designs for my iphone app. I posted the requirements on all 4 sites I mentioned. I received over 200 bids. Bid ranged from $1,800 to $5 (Yes $5!). I carefully verified all of their work/portfolios, exchanged emails and reviewed their responses (learned a lot from this experience, template responses or try to oversell with superlative words, etc.). Out of all, one designer from Argentina caught my attention. She kept telling how much she wanted to design my graphics. She didn't want anything upfront, in fact, she even said she didn't even want any money if I am not satisfied with her work. She gave me a framework on when and how she would submit her work to me for review and if I didn't like the work she would totally redo it. 6 screens with over 40 icons in 3 different resolutions and she was very happy with $238.

Cheap or bargain shoppers, yes, these sites are mostly for them but there isn't any site where shoppers will say something like... "yea, I am willing to pay $10,000 for 6 screens with over 40 icons in 3 different resolutions for my iPhone app." That doesn't make sense. We have always been creative in this country and we need to be even more creative now. Find ways to deliver quick and more with more options to consumers. If we complain about the labor or other costs, we fail to understand the free market and global economy. It also means we lost the race.

[syedkarim]

Can you link us to your designer's portfolio and contact information? Seems like someone I might want to work with.

[larsberg]

Not entirely true. I know several startups (through the UofC b-school) that have used 99designs to get a first design and then stuck with the designer separately from 99designs for all future, higher-pay work.

99designs is a very nice way to find someone to work with long term when you have limited design needs (and money) up-front.

[kenjackson]

They may be losing cheap cusomters today, but maybe not tomorrow. Much like OSS, cheap design comes in all different ranges of quality. But no one pays attention to the bad stuff, but will take notice of the good stuff.

Startups will then look at the fact that they spend more money on design than SW tools, yet their competitor just spent $1k for all the design on their site and is doing really well. The only ppl who know they were using 99designs are others in the industry.

Over time this will disrupt the design industry (at least for SW products) -- and I don't think it can be stopped. But I don't think its necessarily a bad thing at all.

[dot]

True, but not everyone has the connections and clout to pull 5 figure logo contracts.

[jarin]

To be brutally honest though, you probably shouldn't get into freelancing until you have the connections and clout to make a living from it.

[lox]

Sounds like a chicken-and-egg problem to me. How about designers who are still at school and trying to get some part-time work?

[jarin]

Sorry, I probably should have said full-time freelancing. Part-time freelancing is a good way to build up your client base.

[rch]

A nice portfolio site is usually enough to generate connections, if not clients.