[cjblomqvist]

For anyone reading this. Sorry for no references, but it should be known (contrary the attention given by Hollywood etc) that SSR, if I'm not mistaken, did weaken Hitler before D day significantly, and were the ones turning the tide for the Russians. They also lost and killed a LOT more than the allied troops. Partly because they were more reckless with men (considered less worth compared to the allied mindset), but also because they fought more. Then, could they have won alone? No idea. Nobody knows of course.

Don't buy the Hollywood perspective on WW2 without first considering that it's far from the full picture. For example, China/Japan details are not as well known in western world, but a significant situation and part of the conflict with lots of people killed, which also happened before 1939 partly.

As always, it's more complicated...

[celticninja]

It's not unknown that taking on Russia stretched Nazi Germany's resources. However it is also known that between 1939 and 1941 Russia and Germany had an accord and were allies. That was until Germany invaded russia is 1941. So the German army that invaded russia in 1941 had already been fighting Britain and the allied forces for 2 years, significantly weakening them and stretching their resources.

[gdy]

"between 1939 and 1941 Russia and Germany had an accord and were allies"

That's false. Russia and Germany had a non-aggression pact. Also you should read about the Munich Agreement[0], that preceded the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and clearly shown that no one was willing to fight Germany and protect Czechoslovakia besides the USSR.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement

[sergeykish]

Can we agree that both Germany and USSR gained territories as result [1], [2]? And they were trade partners [3]? And, yes, France and UK helped that to happen.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_state...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Credit_A...

[gdy]

The USSR gained so much needed strategic depth, the Germany gained Lebensraum.

Which country wasn't trading with Nazi Germany?

[sergeykish]

"Germany gained so much needed strategic depth" - somehow Germany evil, USSR not - flawed logic

[gdy]

You are welcome to present a Soviet equivalent of the Lebensraum concept.

[celticninja]

You say potato...

[gdy]

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

The fact is that the USSR and Germany signed a non-aggression pact, not a treaty of alliance. You can read the text [0] yourself and see that there is nothing resembling a war alliance.

[0] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pa...

[eveningcoffee]

I clearly looks like an alliance to take over other countries.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pa...

They even divided Poland in a coordinated attack on two fronts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_military...

It is not the name that matters but content and actions.

[sergeykish]

Oh, the start of the war was awful in so many aspects, there were no rights. Second Polish Republic was aggressive state [1], [2]. It partitioned Czechoslovakia with Germany and Hungary in 1938. Soviets border on Poland lies about what was defined in Treaty of Versailles [3]. It does not excuse anything just show mixed things were. Have no idea about other parts of the German Soviet border [4].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_bo...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_War

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Border_a...

[gdy]

Have you actually read the content?

[sergeykish]

Have you red it? My point by marshal USSR Georgy Zhukov on Moscow Victory Parade of 1945 [1]:

> By the combined efforts of the great powers of the USSR, USA, UK fascist Germany was defeated in the ashes

That victory was rebirth of USSR. Heroes returned home, no way to rule them as before. But wounds were not allowed to heal, 9 May become day of "we were attacked, still plenty of enemies around". Russians, Czechs, Slovaks, Ukrainians, Georgians, Moldovan (and many others) fought together. USSR attacked Czechoslovakia, Russia attacked Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine.

Somehow your counterexample is loss and contribution. I never said there was not.

> "turning the tide for the Russians^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H USSR"

By USSR census Russians 53%, Ukrainians 21%, even Slavs would be incorrect - 78%. Census 1937 [3] was not published because of the man-made famine [4] consequences. Official position - there was no such thing.

Hardly anyone knows about occupation of Poland [5], Baltic states [6] and War with Finland [7].

Could they have won war alone? No. Germans occupied a lot of industrial territories with Blitzkrieg, not enough time to restart factories [8]. Without support there would be no Moscow and Stalingrad. There would be guerilla war but that's not enough.

Back to topic. In Russia it is believed that after taking Berlin soldiers should have fought Allies. That's liberation war for you.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gzZoVm-joc&t=20m23s

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1926)

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_(1937)

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poland_(1939%E2%...

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Baltic_state...

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War

[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_in_the_Soviet_Union

[andrea_s]

> Back to topic. In Russia it is believed that after taking Berlin soldiers should have fought Allies. That's liberation war for you.

And they were not the only ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable

[sergeykish]

Sure there were war plans then and from both sides. But those in command understood what could and could not be done. Soviet soldiers knew about allies - both as force and support (food, trucks etc). It was liberation war, it is not clear would they turn weapons on allies or stupid rulers.

I mean today, when hardly any solder left alive.

[gdy]

"In Russia it is believed that after taking Berlin soldiers should have fought Allies."

[Citation needed]

[sergeykish]

It is hard to cite what is in the air. I am transcribing what was programmed by state media. It was generally believed that we could. And how big our country is a treasure by itself. So we should. Liberated countries owe use and should live just as we are, otherwise they are traitors.

Some facts - signs "On Berlin" (На Берлин) [1]? Anyone else want this war again?

But best mark is the leader support [2]:

> In January 2013, at the time of 2011–2013 Russian protests, Putin's approval rating fell to 62%, the lowest figure since 2000 and a ten-point drop over two years. By May 2014, following the annexation of Crimea, Putin's approval rating had rebounded to 85.9%, a six-year high.

... improved after aggression on "brother Slavs", war in neighboring country, tanked economy [3], [4].

[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%BD%D0%B0+%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_image_of_Vladimir_Putin...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_financial_crisis_(2014...

[4] https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&...

[gdy]

You are not making sense.

Nothing in what you have written has any relation to your statement: "In Russia it is believed that after taking Berlin soldiers should have fought Allies".

[sergeykish]

So you do not understand that country leader makes a crime against his people. Puts relatives on different sides of war. That response to his actions programmed by schools and state owned media.

That Germans resolved this conflict and leave on. And Russians cling for their only perceived superiority as war machine like there is nothing else to be proud of. Like it is zero sum game - their own victory and noones else.

You are not alone - their is entire country.

[gdy]

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23668700