[runjake]

You're spending a lot of time in here making accusations of myths and placebos, but none of your counters offer any form of citation.

You'd make much stronger points if you included citations. If your points are in fact correct, they would be highly useful.

[bad_user]

The problem is a claim like the body/brain, the cells themselves needing to adapt to a new fuel source before seeing some benefits, taking months before you get there, actually contradicts the body's physiology. I don't really need to provide any citations, because the onus is on the one making those claims. And even if I provide citations, the goal posts will simply be moved, with lines like — the study was not long enough, the diet was not low carb enough, etc, etc.

It also takes a lot of effort to dispel bullshit, much more effort than spreading it. Engaging with flat earthers is exhausting, most people don't do it due to insufficient knowledge and actual scientists don't engage b/c they've got better things to do.

My language is emotionally charged because I've been in the keto community for a long time and I've witnessed a lot of quackery, which I believe can do harm to those in need, just like the anti-vaxers are doing.

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There are very few studies showing the effects of a ketogenic diet on cognition, in healthy subjects.

Here's a study showing that a low-fat diet can have better psychological improvement, versus a low carb diet, even with similar weight loss: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/articl...

Here's a study that finds similar effects in mood between a low carb and a high carb diet, although the reaction time was improved in the low-fat group: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/86/3/580/4649430

Here's a study comparing cognitive performance between a high carb versus a log carb diet, showing similar results: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3789132/

Here's one study which merely says that people feel awful for the first two weeks and then start to feel less awful after reintroducing carbs — it's unfortunately not randomized: https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/23706/PDF

Here's a study that shows weight loss itself (the biggest confounder of every claim made by keto proponents) is known to affect mood and cognition and to improve quality of life: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4905696/

Here's one paper arguing that most effects of drugs are attributable to placebo or nocebo: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-psych-...

People on a diet also tend to do some exercise, here's one arguing about the positive effects of resistance training, which many in the keto community are engaging in: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abst...

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Weight loss, exercise and placebo are actually the best explanations for most of the seemingly miraculous effects of the keto diet.

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Anyway, here's one for the depletion of glycogen: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/254/5031/573.long

Here's a graph showing roughly the evolution of glycogen and ketones during fasting, from "Harper's Biochemistry": https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-Q0MSPXUAEK_-r?format=jpg&name=...

[runjake]

Thanks, this is an excellent response. This is super informative.

I do understand your goal post comment. It's super-frustrating that virtually all diet information out there has some tangential agenda (Eg. animal welfare, keto/paleo cultism, etc)

[alexbanks]

I have always felt that most of proposed benefits of the keto diet are largely just a result of "giving a shit." People go through lives eating garbage all the time, laying around feeling bloated and crappy. Then jump onto <insert any miracle diet> and after a few weeks feel amazing. The secret is they swapped from shoveling garbage into themselves with becoming relatively picky about what they're willing to put in their bodies. Suddenly they look better and feel better, and want to double down on looking and feeling better.

I myself did the keto diet and found success with it, but then I transitioned to just more of a selective generalized diet and experienced identical effects. Keto was just the first time I'd ever had a set of rules to apply to the food I ate, which was ultimately the actual training I needed.

[wtetzner]

I think you're probably right, that what you don't eat is probably more important that what you do.

However, I did change my diet to be very selective, and felt great. But changing to keto had some additional benefits, the most prominent being a noticeable change in how hungry I felt during the day. It's much easier to go long periods of time without eating when in ketosis.

[alexbanks]

I did not find those effects to be specific to keto for me, but I'm glad it's going well for you.