[supernova87a]

The piecemeal attempts to create a rational payments system are getting to the point where the Fed just needs to acknowledge the need for a free/secure/unified infrastructure run and regulated by the government. They are starting to do this (Fed real time payment + settlement system) but not fast enough.

Other countries laugh at us when we talk about the checks we have to write, the scams we endure with mistaken payments / withdrawals without our knowledge, or the fees we accept banks charging us.

We would never choose to have the system we currently do. We need to get over the interests / lazy inertia holding us back.

[chimeracoder]

> Other countries laugh at us when we talk about the checks we have to write,

Checks are increasingly rare in the US as well. Ask someone under the age of 25 how often they write a physical check to someone who isn't their landlord. (And even many landlords are starting to accept other forms of payment these days).

Personally, I don't think I've written a physical check in at least five years, except to my superintendent (holiday gift - I don't want to send cash by mail, and it's the one time that a physical check is actually the most convenient way to pay someone).

> the scams we endure with mistaken payments / withdrawals without our knowledge

SEPA, which is what is used in Europe, is actually vulnerable to mistaken payments and similar scams as well. It's faster than ACH, but it's just as easy to send money to the wrong recipient (and just as difficult to rectify if that happens).

[supernova87a]

Well, at least it's your mistake that you make. (I agree that some better checksum or verification before you press "send" might be good).

In the US, people can withdraw from your bank account if they have the numbers. And it's on you to detect and report the fraud to get it reversed.

[ThePowerOfFuet]

How is SEPA vulnerable to "mistaken payments"?

[dclusin]

The post office used to offer free checking accounts and basic banking services. They should reintroduce that with updated digital services as well.

[sct202]

I can only speak about my local post office, but I can't imagine wanting to deal with their customer service if anything were to happen to my money.

[dclusin]

It's more about providing a basic level of service to the marginalized groups in our society who are unbanked. It also provides a bulwark against extortionary and predatory pricing. Take check cashing as an example. Every time you get paid from your (I'm assuming highly paid) tech job does your bank take 1%? That's the story for people who don't have bank accounts. You and I would never use these services.

[sgc]

Many countries have postal services offering banking to help pay for the post/because it works well with postal branches everywhere. They are separate divisions and the banking division is run like a bank. But I am always skeptical in the US, because government employees and caring, efficient/competent service don't seem to mix all that often.

[cameldrv]

It's not real-time, but Same Day ACH is here. The Fed charges about 5 cents for it, and it processes within roughly 4 business hours. The biggest problem with ACH as I see it is that there's not a widely implemented memo field that goes along with the transaction for invoice/customer numbers etc. This makes matching up incoming transactions a hassle, and so billers don't want to just give you their bank account number, they want you to sign up on their web site.

In the EU with SEPA, there's roughly the same functionality but with the memo, and that is the standard way to pay for things, without any third party billing platform being in the middle.

[xwdv]

It’s ok, we laughed at other countries that didn’t have robust credit systems and required people to pay for things with debit cards instead of credit cards, where they could be personally liable for any sort of fraud that takes place with their card.

[Denvercoder9]

Those countries also have robust and much more secure systems in place that make card fraud not nearly as common as it is in the US.

[thatfrenchguy]

Nope in other countries you're insured on your debit card as well

[chimeracoder]

> Nope in other countries you're insured on your debit card as well

At the time EMV ("chip-and-pin") was first rolled out across most of Europe, cardholders were actually liable for card-present fraud on their cards, whereas they had not been for magnetic stripe card-present fraud. It took a few years for the EU to pass a law changing this. In the meantime, chip-and-pin was actually a downgrade from the customers' perspective.

[xwdv]

Then who cares if it leaves your sight? Why bring a card processor all the way to my table? I doubt they are that well insured.

[yohannparis]

Reminded me the first time in the USA, when the waiter ask how I will pay my meal, I said VISA, and he just waited here. I said I need the card processor, and he explained to me that, no, he will take my credit card in the back and to trust him to not steal from me... It's an insane process.

[butisaidsudo]

They bring it so you can enter your PIN, most places don't use signatures.

[miohtama]

If you take away profits from banks for processing your transactions it is called socialism?

Half trolling.

Single Euro Payment Area wire transfers are always free, by the law.

Naturally banks need to make profit, but it is prices little bit more transparently as monthly fees.

[ThePowerOfFuet]

>always free, by the law

Actually, the law is that SEPA transfers cannot cost more than a national transfer.

National transfers happen to typically be free.

[vraivroo]

No need to be flippant, it IS socialism. As in, the payment network ought to be socialized. The opposite being privatized.