[lnsru]

Go to Switzerland if you can. I have no clue about taxes in Canada, but in Germany it’s not fun. As a single person household you will be heavily taxed. Be ready to give a ~half away for the state. Saving for retirement will be also taxed heavily. Or at least I wasn’t able to find good investment vehicle to save taxes. Unemployed wife plus kids could help here. Public health insurance is ok. Glases, dental problems and modern procedures you must pay by yourself. It’s not expensive: minor surgery costs 300-500€. Berlin has skyrocketing housing cost (as probably all big cities nowadays). I would not go the former Eastern Germany as a foreigner. Colleague from Philippines told lots of stories about ugly situations in Dresden. I also wouldn’t accept offer under €70k in Berlin. Of course, it’s doable with €45k, but I am not sure if it’s worth all migration effort. Fresh graduates start with €55k nowadays. In southern Germany even more. But be aware, Germany’s economy is slowing down, hiring process might take longer than couple years ago.

[legulere]

> Saving for retirement will be also taxed heavily.

There already is a public pension system, that should cover the biggest part of the pension. Saving anything beyond public the public pension system is taxed like normal capital yields. Capital yields are taxed as 26% or the tax rate of the normal income tax, whichever is lower.

> dental problems and modern procedures you must pay by yourself.

Basic dental healthcare is included (biannual checkups, fillings, getting teeth pulled, ...). I don't know what you mean with modern procedures that don't get paid. Healthcare pays everything that's medically necessary and some stuff on top (e.g. the contraceptive pill is included until you're 22).

> I also wouldn’t accept offer under €70k in Berlin. Of course, it’s doable with €45k, but I am not sure if it’s worth all migration effort. Fresh graduates start with €55k nowadays.

That seems a bit high in my experience, especially as Berlin is one of the areas with lower pay.

[yladiz]

> That seems a bit high in my experience, especially as Berlin is one of the areas with lower pay.

I think new graduates may make less than 55k, but salaries are going up and 70k for an offer with 2-3 years of experience isn't uncommon (although it will likely be closer to 60-65k).

[lnsru]

It’s a bit naive to believe, that public pension system will bring you far. My friend earned a lot back then, now she gets 1700€ plus owns her flat. Now it’s almost impossible to buy a flat even in Berlin if you don’t have rich parents, that can help with €100k.

As you write “basic healthcare” is included. For advanced stuff you pay by yourself.

€30k is Aldi cashier’s salary in Southern Germany. But Blue Card has also very low limit, €42€: https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/newsroom/buergerservice-f...

[romanovcode]

> For advanced stuff you pay by yourself.

What is this "advanced stuff" you're talking about. With public health insurance in Germany you'll get open-heart surgery for free if you need one.

The only thing you won't be getting is "just-for-looks" type of treatments e.g. breast implants, white implants at the back of your mouth etc..

[avh02]

I'm in the min range of the offers you'd accept for Berlin, no wife/kids - 50% tax is not the greatest, but it's easy to live on the other half plus save. I'm not the most savvy/concerned about investing and/or avoiding tax, but I put a good amount of money aside for savings.

Depending on what you're getting away from, Berlin is definitely worth it. A few things are hard, but all-in-all it's a great place to live. Germany still wants tech workers, look in to the Blue Card - they make your process/life so much easier if you qualify.

Some of the social system is fantastic (sick leave, parental leave, etc)

I'm happy to pay my 50%.

edit: to say that at this salary bracket, looking around, I'm very privileged. It's ridiculous that that'd be a minimum for anyone.

[TurboHaskal]

Never seen anyone starting out at 55k in Germany. 35-40k sounds more reasonable for someone without experience. Seniors around 65k with a hard limit of 80k for engineers not moving into management/consulting.

[Matthias247]

I started at 47k 14 years ago at an automotive company in southern Germany. I think they generally pay a bit better than the small companies, and nowadays it certainly is even more. The caps will also be higher than what you mentioned. But there is certainly a lot of a lower limit than what people can make as individual contributors in other countries.

[hocuspocus]

Even in Berlin my employer offered 50k plus 8% bonus for new grads. Some hip startups paid even more than us.

Plus about every fresh grad hired at the IG Metall Tarif, they're definitely not starting at a mere 40k.

[jeroh]

I researched Switzerland a bit and it seems your comment about taxes is valid if you assume that you live a low tax canton like Schwyz or Zug (from where you can commute 30-60 minutes to work in Zuerich). Taxes in Geneva look pretty high to me.

[hocuspocus]

Taxes in Zürich are fairly low, anything you'd save living in Zug or Schwyz would probably go into your much higher rent.

The job market in Geneva isn't super exciting anyway. But even in Lausanne, Bern, ... you should end up paying a lot less taxes and contributions than in Germany. I believe only Belgium has a higher tax wedge than Germany. And at least in Switzerland I can see my tax money being invested in the infrastructure.

[lnsru]

Can you write something about salaries in Zürich? How far can CHF 120k bring me with a family? Is CHF 150k doable outside Google Zürich at all?

[hocuspocus]

120k is a decent salary for a mid-level engineer. 140-150k is definitely doable with significant experience. Google pays quite a bit more.

Young kids are expensive in Switzerland if both parents work. But assuming one parent stays at home, 120k is enough to live a comfortable life.

Then if you're in embedded as per your profile, there are just so many more opportunities in the South of Germany, I'm not sure it makes sense.

[lnsru]

Thank you very much!

I am in embedded, but doing more and more Linux C++ programming for my personal projects. I hope, I can transfer from embedded to “normal” software engineering in foreseeable future.

[s3nnyy]

I know people who live fine with two kids on one phd salary (60k / year) or so. 120k CHF is definately enough to support a family. On 100k CHF you get already >7k CHF net, an apartment costs 2k - 2.5k if it is not in the city center and health insurance is 500 chf and food maybe 1k CHF more, so you can save 3k CHF every month. I run a tech recruitment firm in Zurich (coderfit.com), DM or email at [e-mail] if you want to know more.