[throwamay1241]

I helped my mother reformat her computer remotely. We successfully ported her mail client but managed to lose her gmail password - meaning we had enough access to send/receive emails but not create new sessions. The account was created some time in 2006. A week prior to the reformat she had changed jobs, and lost the mobile phone number associated with her account.

The second factor email was associated with my account, I could see reset codes come through which were relayed to her but would result in an 'oops, something went wrong'. My guess is a bug due to account age / whatever.

I figured we had enough evidence to obtain a password reset, so I googled for gmail support contact details. There are none.

I then tried repeatedly to contact Google via twitter, all my tweets were ignored - probably because I only have like 20 followers.

In the end, my mother ended up porting her old mobile number to a prepaid sim, as $previouscompany had disconnected the number entirely, and used that as the second factor to reset the account.

Pretty damn frustrating that Google doesn't have any unpaid inbound support _AT ALL_.

Next time I'll consider paying a twitter influencer to impersonate me (or my mother), or paying for adspace, or using a mail service that exposes at least some form of support.

[exDM69]

> Pretty damn frustrating that Google doesn't have any unpaid inbound support _AT ALL_.

Frustrating? Yes. Surprising? No.

Afaik, there isn't even any paid support for individual customers unless you have some sort of business account. I find this a bit unreasonable, but I wouldn't expect any free service that involves a paid employee from any service I don't pay for (with money, not privacy).

They can't be making many dollars per year per user. A single support call answered by a human would take years' worth of income from said user. I'm amazed at how many people do not realize this, and still rely on these "free" services even for their jobs.

To give an example: recently, a popular blogger lost their Instagram account and it was sold to a 3rd party (because they had lots of followers, I suppose). Blogging is their day job and Instagram is a major source of readers for them, so they depend on it for their living. The account was probably stolen by using a reused password from some password dump and they didn't have 2FA enabled.

In the end, the blogger got back their account because they were a part of a traditional media publishing organization which had a business account with Facebook, Inc and were able to escalate it that way. Had they not had this account, it would have been lost.

There are lots and lots of professions where social media presence is required to bring in the customers (e.g. woodworkers these days depend on Instagram!) or even monetization from their account directly.

If you depend on Google, Facebook, Youtube, etc to earn a living, you should consider a business account or at least do your best to secure the account (2FA, no password reuse, etc).

[ethbro]

They way I look at it, Google treats support in the same way that Amazon treats APIs.

In that they know they're making a choice with consequences and pain. But they see the strategic value of that choice (never running a support org) as outweighing the tactical pain.

Additionally, I'd guess the internal opinion is "If users need support, then something is broken and we should just fix it."

Where I think this falls down, which Microsoft learned 30 years ago, is that:

(a) Unless you're asking, you're not going to surface visibility of broken things. Users will just find a way to deal, while being pissed off. And then some product team finds out there's been a major issue for the last 5 years.

(b) Unless you're actively soliciting feedback from your customers and users, you're at high risk of building the wrong thing. We see this with enterprise GCP frequently. "Oh, you need Y feature? We never thought about that, because {insert internal way that Google does things, but no one else does}."

[benologist]

If Google knows they're not legally compelled to provide support they just don't. That's why their support can scale to Play Store's 2 billion users but not Gmails.

If the EU ever gets around to forcing Google to support their users regardless of how they are enriching Google the moral of the story will be they saved billions by waiting until litigation. Just like taxes.

[lonelappde]

What support do you get for free apps in Play Store?

[benologist]

Phone and email - the apps might be free but they still had to purchase a Google-powered device to get free apps.

https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/7299936

https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/7100415?hl=en

[PasserBy2024]

That is why seeing them loose the cloud war feels so good! Yeah, apparently there are developers outside of Google having opinions and making decisions!

[throwamay1241]

> I wouldn't expect any free service that involves a paid employee from any service I don't pay for (with money, not privacy).

I expected at least one response suggesting this. I, and many others would consider email access my absolute most critical asset, it's also extremely difficult to switch providers. It's not like your real estate goes 'nope sorry you can't prove yourself, we can't replace your lost keys without validation, sorry, go buy new stuff and live somewhere else' - I imagine that would be illegal in many countries even if the place was rent free.

I understand that Google support, if it existed, would be inundated with bad tickets. However, I don't imagine having a skeleton set of support staff and a support workflow that requires users to climb mountains to communicate with a human would really impact on googles bottom line. It would have stopped me venting in various places about the issue, and might end up losing potential sales when I/others push our employers to use $not_google because their support sucks.

[_-___________-_]

> I, and many others would consider email access my absolute most critical asset

So why not pay for it?

[JeremyBanks]

I did. I paid $240/year for Google One, which claimed to have support for consumer accounts. It was nice to have that peace of mind.

But then when I actually needed supoort, they couldn't do anything but read forum posts to me. They were not empowered to escalate to actually resolve anything more complicated than "where's the button for X".

Even if you pay, Google still treats their users like shit.

[throwamay1241]

This isn't even a service request, it's a bug report.

Are you able to name a reputable email provider which isn't >$60/year or self-managed? My 65 year old mother probably wouldn't be interested in either of those two, but would be willing to pay for per-use support lines for the one time in 13 years which rendered her account inaccessible.

And lets not forget my father, who couldn't access his _paid_ Telstra/O365 standard-user work email. When I called the Telstra support line they gave me administrative access to the entire instance, no proof of ID necessary (I literally said I'm not associated with the company and calling on behalf of my father).

To be honest, I'm not sure which is worse now that I think about it.

[_-___________-_]

$60/year doesn't seem terrible for your absolute most critical asset.

[LilBytes]

It isn't, but $60 per year for a service you've been getting for years is perfectly fine, until it isn't. And then you realise the value of the dollars spent, but not before.

[_-___________-_]

But yeah, I mostly agree with you. Paid single-use support would be an absolutely transformational addition to the likes of the free Google services, I think. Why doesn't it exist?

[janekm]

Most likely because the cost of a single complicated support call (of the sort that can't be answered from a knowledge base) that may need to be escalated to 2nd level support or beyond would appear exorbitant ($100 perhaps, or more?).

[lonelappde]

Paying per incident is a terrible moral hazard.

[justinclift]

Dotster was similar for DNS hosting, several years ago.

Called them to get access to our account after a problem, and they gave me admin with no verification at all. Just provided the account name, was asked for new password. Like... WTF?

Tried telling their security people, who then denied it happened, let alone it being a problem.

Our DNS hosting was moved away from Dotster shortly afterwards.

[lonelappde]

My dog license costs $35/yr and the only benefit is the county might help me recover my dog if I lose her, which happened once in 13 years.

My laptop has a warranty that costs $60 year and I get nothing, nothing!, unless I break it. And don't even get me started on my car insurance!

[JoeAltmaier]

Wasn't it Mark Twain who said insurance is "Betting the other man that your house will burn down, and hoping he wins"

[MrMorden]

Fastmail.

[wpietri]

> So why not pay for it?

Let's turn this around. Why is Google offering a free service that doesn't meet reasonable expectations for how that service works?

My repeated experience is that Google is good at things like search, where people get what they get and individual humans don't matter to the company. But they're bad at things that require treating people like people.

After being a happy Google hardware customer for years, I just had a purchasing experience that was so bad that I'll never buy from Google again. Their hardware and software won me as a customer; their customer service not only lost me, but was so bad it has made me more wary of doing business at all with any part of Google.

For me, this is in the "do or do not, there is no try" bucket. They don't really want to deal with humans, so they half-ass it. I wish they'd just stay out of those kinds of businesses, as their dominance and indifference to profit can mean crushing competitors and preventing the emergence of a real marketplace.

[lonelappde]

What company offers white glove support for nonpaying customers?

[wpietri]

You seem to be missing the point. I'm saying that if Google can't deliver a service well, maybe they should not offer the service. Which is what most companies do.

[Spooky23]

You get pretty decent support if you have Google One. My wife had an issue, clicked the support thing and was talking to somebody in a few minutes.

[wildfire]

You get decent response.

There is someone on the line and follow-up emails too.

But actually fixing things is a crap-shoot.

I've had an issue with Google One family accounts for a month now.

I can not invite anyone into my family, so far no solution. Instead they keep throwing free storage at various family members because they can not escalate very much.

[ethbro]

$20 / yr?

Even if I'm not using any of the other features, that seems like the cheapest support plan ever.

They say "Google experts"... so who staffed the phones? Are we talking actual customer support who are empowered to run playbooks and cut tickets, or what?

[jhart99]

In my experience, they are able to connect you with people who should be able to resolve your problem. Sort of like sending you directly to an operator. I was able to solve a problem with my YouTube Premium/Google Music subscription using it in about 20 minutes. My problem was I have an account from beta Google Music that has been grandfathered for years and I lost YouTube ad free when they recently restricted it. They forwarded me to someone at YouTube who actually was able to resolve it.

[nickpsecurity]

"but I wouldn't expect any free service that involves a paid employee from any service I don't pay for (with money, not privacy)."

It's not a free service. It's a surveillance company that spies on, profiles, and sells out its users for a profit in exchange for the services it offers. Most surveillance companies with email offerings have support. If Google doesn't, then it's taking something in exchange for nothing on top of doing less than the standard most of its competitors set in this area. It will also probably keep making revenue on the locked account for a little while despite its owner having no access.

Way different ethically or professionally than a situation where the user was getting free email with the other party getting absolutely nothing in return. Something truly free.

[fjcp]

People bash Yahoo Mail a lot(with good reasons), but last month I had some problems with my (free) email account and after trying all the options I had to contact the support for help. Almost instantly I was talking on chat with a real human who helped me with my problem. I know their service have problems, but I was impressed with how easy it was to reach a person for help, I thought it would be harder.

[kyrra]

This post and other top-level post in this thread have issues with account recovery.

Google tends to follow a playbook when it comes to account recovery, and if you can't check one of the boxes to get through, they won't let you back in. This is to stop account takeovers via support (which are known attack vectors people use against other companies, like cell phone providers).

While it's frustrating to lose access to you account, it is the tradeoff Google has made to try to keep your account safe.

And as far as Google employees being able to help, that channel has mainly been closed. Even if you know a Googler and have lost access to your account, the Googler will likely just tell you to follow the account recovery help page[0].

(I'm a googler, opinions are my own)

[0] https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/7682439?hl=en

[noja]

You're an apologist who is spouting nonsense.

Other companies solve this problem, Google hasn't and they should do better. Perhaps by involving a real support person.

[growse]

Which other companies? How did they solve the problem?

If you involve a human, you're going to get socially engineered. It's not a question of "if", but "when" - especially if you're a high-value target where user accounts are valuable.

[leggomylibro]

>Pretty damn frustrating that Google doesn't have any unpaid inbound support _AT ALL_.

They actually do have basic customer support for free accounts, it just isn't very easy to find. I forget exactly how it works, but I was able to help someone in a similar situation recover their account by following the 'steps to recover your account' listed here:

https://support.google.com/accounts/troubleshooter/2402620#t...

After failing the automated recovery, it came up with an option to request a manual reset, with a free-entry text field asking what was wrong. It sent messages to the account and all of its recovery options with links to cancel the request, then after a few days someone took a look and was able to help.

[wpietri]

It's very frustrating. I've run my own mail server since before Google existed. Sometimes I have deliverability problem with Google Mail. Only there as far as I know, and not all the time. But sometimes it'll just put custom-written, non-bulk email in spam.

Even though I have friends at Google, I can't find out what's going on. Apparently that team won't even talk to other Googlers. It's maddening. Now if I need something to really go through (e.g., contacting somebody about a job) I have to send the mail from my gmail account. That feels like rewarding them, but I don't seem to have a choice.

[smartbit]

Did you change your ip-address after gmail started?

[wpietri]

You're asking if my IP address has been the same since 2004? No, we've changed providers a couple of times. But it's been stable for the last 5 years at least.

[ubermonkey]

The idea of trusting a giant corporate entity with my email with whom I don't even have a commercial relationship has always been anathema to me, and that reaction just seems smarter the older I get.

[heavenlyblue]

>> Next time I'll consider paying a twitter influencer to impersonate me

That seems like a great idea in general :)

[justinclift]

Do you recommend Google things to other people?

Personally, having experienced a similar thing but not regained access to the account, I never will.

Actively encouraging the exact opposite frankly.

[robk]

sadly i guess it worked fine from their end. you sorted out the problem on your own without them helping.