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> All types of oils are not good for us, oil in general is not a health food, no even extra virgin olive oil.

I don't buy this. Omega 3 is the obvious counter example, but I don't even believe that olive oil is outright bad for you.

It has to do with the processing, olive oil is a food extract. Olives are awesome, olive oil is not, it's not a health food unlike popular belief.

It's not a whole food, most of the nutrients and the whole fiber has been taken out by the processing.

Olive oil only contains modest amounts of some vitamins, that can be easily obtained elsewhere.

Otherwise, it's almost 100% liquid fat with little micro-nutrient content.

You mean fish oil? I think here people are talking about plant oils. Fish oil is not a health food either, AFIK it's no longer recommended by the American Heart Association https://www.cardiovascularbusiness.com/topics/practice-manag...

For a pollutant free source of Omega 3, there is algae oil at very small amounts, or most people bodies just make their own Omega 3, just like any other animal.

How do herbivores get their Omega 3? Through diet, ground flax seeds is a great way to help your body produce Omega 3.

I'm not sure that the above can be summarised as "oils are not good for us". If the oil was removed from olives, the resulting olives would not be healthier.

If the fish oil was removed from fish, the resulting fish would not be healthier.

I'm not sure how this became a debate about vegetarianism either.

Eating the oil in its natural form, together with the whole olive, is not the same as eating the oil separately.

The effect that has in your digestive system is not the same. Another example is eating fructose extract instead of a whole fruit.

Eating the whole fruit does not spike your blood sugar, unlike eating the equivalent amount of fructose. Also, it does not satiate as much.

Compare the satiety of eating 10 olives to eating a tablespoon of olive oil or two.

It's this reductionistic approach to nutrition where we try to extract these single nutrients that is harmful, because our body has evolved to eat whole foods and not food extracts.

We humans have evolved to eat the whole foods, not highly processed food extracts.

There are thousands of compounds in whole foods that interact with each other and our bodies in a million different ways, and that we are only beginning to comprehend.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/people-and-culture/food/t...

cr1895 2581 days ago

>We humans have evolved to eat the whole foods, not highly processed food extracts

You picked olives, so...what exactly is great about eating a raw, unprocessed olive?

Eating whole foods is not about eating raw, that is different.

I don't think the argument to eating raw makes much sense either, as we are the only animal on the planet that has evolved to eat cooked food and that has been the case for maybe a couple of millions of years, at least much longer than the human species (which goes back to aprox. 200k years).

The olives that we eat as appetizers are cured or sun-dried, because the raw olive tastes horribly indeed.

So there is some treatment of the food to make it edible, or some cooking involved.

But this is very different than extracting an oil and discarding the rest of the food, together with all of its fiber and most of its nutritional content.

It's like taking a fruit and only eating its sugar, one is healthy and the other is not.

This was a fascinating read, thanks.

That's true. I agree with this in general. From your initial statement I thought you were including those oils even in the context of their natural occurrence.

Sawamara 2581 days ago

You should not buy this, olive oils are one of the healthiest sources of fat on this earth. Plenty of studies confirm it.

AFIK extra virgin olive oil is at best neutral for human health, while other oils are detrimental. There are the chemical compounds formed with the eating of certain oils, besides olive oil has very little micro-nutrient content, it's almost 100% fat.

Whole olives are a great source of plant fat, but olive oil is not. Eating the whole food is crucial, instead of these highly processed extracts.

Of course, it's much better than other foods such as saturated fat, but still it's not a health food.

frafra 2581 days ago

They are not, different oils have just different mix of different fats, determining consistence at different temperatures. Micro-nutrients are overestimated; you do not eat olives or drink olive oil because you want to get "micro-nutrients", like you would not prefer brown sugar to white sugar just because there is a very little amount of vitamins. Every substance to have a meaningful positive or negative effect has to be in a reasonable quantity.

I use olive oil everyday (I was born in Italy, were it is widely used), but it is dangerous to fry with it, especially the extra-virgin one, because it has not been purified, and you get the known smoke at a lower temperature. This is just to demonstrate that there are different oil for different usages, there is no black and white.

I too used to use olive oil every day, but now I haven't used it for years. It's one of the main sources of hidden calories in food, it's very hard to lose weight without cutting it.

One tablespoon of olive oil is 120 empty calories, no fiber, no protein and no carbs, minimal volume, almost zero satiety. Yet it has the same caloric amount as a large banana.

I don't think micro-nutrients are over-estimated, they are essential for well-being according to science. The body only needs them in small amounts, but they are essential.

I know we have been marketed for a very long time that oil is a health food, and it's a very hard thing to let go, but it's just not true.

The Mediterranean diet is healthy despite the olive oil and not because of it (due to the high amount of fruits and vegetables).

Sawamara 2581 days ago

Your body needs fat. Also, olive oil contains plenty of antioxidants, and Vitamin K and E - so the claim that it is just empty calories is pointless.

Also, just a thought game for you: if I were to claim that your carbs are just empty calories, and my fat covers those calories too, what would your response be? Because the body can create carbs from fat and fat from carbs, so that point is kinda moot. Just pointing out the calorie content of an oil is not a negative against it. An average man need ~2000 kcal daily, and an average women needs ~1500. Just by carbs and proteins alone, that would mean 400g+ of that intake. Why?

eridan2 2581 days ago

Actually Omega 3 is bad if consumed in large quantities, AHA recommends a limit of 3 grams per day

Sure, as are all consumable things.

tracker1 2580 days ago

The human body absolutely needs fats... most highly available sources of protein tend to come with 0.5 to 4g of fat per 1g of protein. If you need 80-120g of protein a day, you should probably be getting 40-80g of fats per day.

Generally speaking most dietary fat for pre-agricultural man would come from fish, meat or fatty fruits and tree nuts. All of which are/were prevalent and common. As to the sourcing, my own opinion is that the more refined the source, the less natural it is... which means that most seed oil sources are anything but natural to take in any significant quantity.

I tend to stick to lard, butter, evoo, avocado oil, and occasional walnut oil for cooking or salad use.

vfc1 2580 days ago

The body needs fats but many plant foods have some fat on it. Oats for example are 17% fat, so if you eat them for breakfast that is a great start.

Most nuts and seeds are also almost 100% fat, plus many fruits and vegetables contain some fat.

You mention 80-120g of protein a day, that is probably more like 50g. Most people overeat on protein, which leads to all sort of issues like kidney problems, etc.

On the other hand, most people don't eat enough fiber, which leads to all sorts of digestive issues that are consider normal but are not.

For example, getting diarrhea or constipation every other month, carrying around anti-diarrhea pills, etc.

This is not normal and does not happen while eating enough whole plant foods, but it's socially considered normal because its so prevalent.

Most people get 15g or less of fiber per day, while they should be getting 30 to 50, that is one the main problem with the western diet, and not the lack of protein.

Sawamara 2580 days ago

You are bullshitting against fats and vegetables, for what reason I do not know.

But nuts and seeds are NOT "almost 100%" percent fat. They range from fat contents of 30g to upwards 70-75g per 100g (walnuts, for example, are on a higher end of this, so are hazelnuts. Almonds, pistachio are the middle ground, while peanuts - technically legume, I know -are on the lower side.

The rest? 8-10 percent carbs, 10g+ fiber (some contain less, some much more), and anything between 10 to 30% protein (highest ones, again are almonds and peanuts, and sesame seeds).

This is very easy to verify, you just need to do a quick googling. I do not know why anyone would clame this. Some of your other claims are going to be harder to look up, so I would like some citations, like the ones with olive oils STICKING TO YOUR ABDOMEN :P

vfc1 2579 days ago

Yes indeed almost 100% is an exaggeration, nuts are in general mostly fat, typically 70% to 80%. I think they are an awesome food by the way, shown to be very healthy, unlike oil.

Its very different eating nuts from eating oil, because nuts are whole foods, you are getting a lot more than the fat when you eat a nut, as you mention.

But they are to be eaten in moderation, not by the bags.

The quote about olive oil I heard in one of Dr McDougall videos on oil on YouTube, although which video I cannot tell.

Probably in this video he will talk about it, it's his longest video on oil - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptF0KuF8xHU&t=74s

Anyway, my bottom line is that oil is not a health food, unlike popular belief.

Reasons being: it's almost only liquid fat with little nutritional content (those vitamins can be easily obtained elsewhere), and it's the number one source of hidden calories in food and one of the multiple causes for the obesity epidemic in the west.

Easting olives is healthy, but eating olive oil is not. Eating an extract of a food is very different from eating the whole food.

tracker1 2579 days ago

I'm not saying people aren't getting enough protein... I use 80-120g as that's the range for a lean body weight of 220#, or 100kg - which is roughly my lean body weight (though mine is wrapped in a protective layer of fat).

Also, getting up to 2x the suggested protein range (minimum is 0.8g:kg to 1.2g:kg) rarely has the complications you mention. I'm also not suggesting that people don't eat general plant food. I'm not big on refined foods overall though, and that includes refined vegetable oils.

Most people are afraid of fat, and specifically animal fat for no good reason. Fatty cuts from grass fed ruminant animals are one of the lowest inflammation foods you can have and eating nose to tail is a very good nutrition balance. For every correlation survey based study associating disease to red meat, there is a much higher correlation to refined grains, sugars and oils.

IMHO, people should eat closer to real/whole foods that they prepare themselves. And imho, this can and should include some meat, fish and plenty of eggs (another food staple that gets a lot of undue negative press).

vfc1 2579 days ago

You should look after your health more, if you are young it won't affect but wait until you hit 40.

Just saying, if you weight 100kg, even if you would be 2 meters tall you would still be overweight.

You can check that according to any BMI calculator like this one https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmi...

acchow 2581 days ago

Why are oils not good for us?