[timsher]

Hi! I'm one of the founders at GBatteries, please let me try to clear that up.

We've demonstrated 5 min to 50% charge, 10 min to 100% - I’ll edit this to include a demo that we’ve done at CES 2019, and that we’re now exhibiting at the Detroit Auto show demonstrating.

[EDIT] Video here: https://youtu.be/kSLrqR4TfnU Note: Charging times can vary by ~1 minute here and there, because the algorithm is adaptive and characteristics of batteries change from moment to moment.

>First read says that they're delivering 60kWh in 15min, or they're pumping electrons at 240kW. This is just nonsense -- most deployed DC fast chargers are 50kW... the charger companies and the OEMs are experimenting with 200kW chargers, but those are liquid cooled. So physics says this is nonsense.

>Okay, so second read: the 60 kWh is distracting technobabble, and what they're ACTUALLY doing is "adding 119 miles of range in 15 minutes."

There’s a mistake in the article, in both cases it should be in 5 minutes; should be corrected shortly.

In this example, we’re talking about a 60kWh battery with 238 miles of range (Chevy Bolt). Right now the car charges 90miles in 30 minutes, or 15 miles in 5 minutes because the manufacturer limits the charging rate for the batteries in order to preserve their life. Our technology can enable these Li-ion batteries to charge in 5 min to 50%, or 119 miles. This example assumes that the car goes to a fast charging station that has enough power to charge the vehicle in this time; fast charge infrastructure that’s currently being put up by companies like Ionity (350kW), Electrify America, or Charge Point (500kW capability).

The problem with batteries today is not charging speed; it’s possible to charge any battery quickly, but the faster you charge a battery the faster it will degrade. Our technology is able to decrease the irreversible chemical reactions that happen during charging, so that the same batteries can be charged fast without compromising cycle life.

[amluto]

What are you doing differently? Unless you’re pulsing your charging or otherwise varying the current rapidly, then it seems that all you can really do is vary the current as a function of temperature, state of charge, and maybe some other variables. At the end of the day, if you’re going to deliver energy e in time t, you need average power e/t, and the fancier your curve, the more your peak power will exceed your average.

(And if you don’t want to overhead the cables or the connector, you care about current squared, giving you an added incentive to charge at near constant current or perhaps to charge some cells at a different rate than others.

What’s the trick here?

[taneq]

And to add to these questions - what are the consequences for increasing charging rates? Tesla has made some public statements regarding fast(er) charging (specifically targeting the 350kW Ionity chargers) to the effect that pushing that much power will degrade the batteries far faster for little gain.

Edit:

> Our technology is able to decrease the irreversible chemical reactions that happen during charging, so that the same batteries can be charged fast without compromising cycle life.

This seems to imply it's doing something to the battery chemistry? Maybe a brief pulse of high-rate discharge every now and then to help balance things out?

[_pmf_]

> This seems to imply it's doing something to the battery chemistry? Maybe a brief pulse of high-rate discharge every now and then to help balance things out?

That's usually within the domain of the battery management system. There's not much the charger itself can do (there is intelligent communication between EV and charging equipment, but not as granular as the view the BMS has).

[timsher]

You're correct - On a high level, our technology is based on pulses that are fully adaptive, and their parameters are adjusted by the AI controlling the charging.

[lgleason]

This makes more sense....I posted another comment, but the long and short is that you would need to be able to bypass the manufacturers controller to do this, which it sounds like you are saying.

[timsher]

That's correct, we're not able to fast charge at these levels without approval from the OEM because of the limits they have built. We need to either be integrated inside of the vehicle, or on the charger but have the vehicles "approval" for charging at these higher rates, as at Level 3 and up it's DC to the pack.

[toomuchtodo]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but this seems like a B2B/acquisition play masquerading as a B2C play; your value (if proven) is a superior battery management system (versus the OEM's or a supplier's) and charge controller for non-Tesla EVs (hinging on the battery pack instrumentation architecture).

[timsher]

You're absolutely right; our business model is to license the technology to manufacturers (OEM, Tier 1, etc) - not B2C to anyone with an EV.

[toomuchtodo]

Awesome, hope your team is successful.

[bostonpete]

Why do you say it's masquerading as B2C? It seems like straight up B2B to me...

[toomuchtodo]

The techcrunch article tone makes it sound like they're pitching charge rate increases directly to consumers. That doesn't seem to be the case based on the in-thread discussion, but how techcrunch made it sound.

[pkulak]

The battery is the most expensive part of an electric car. If you have come up with something that MITMs the signaling between my car and the charger, causing the charger to deliver more power than my car says it can handle, that's a huge problem. First off, there's no way this won't immediately invalidate every warranty on my car, and secondly, why should I trust you over the company that manufactured my car and its battery?

[URSpider94]

Read the founder’s comment - sounds like they would only do this with explicit approval (and presumably license payment) from the manufacturer.

[floatrock]

Thanks for chiming in! Batteries and charging are complicated as is, when translated into Journalist they get even more so :)

There was a lot of concern with the first generation EV's about battery life, a lot of which the data has shown to be misguided now that the first gen's are coming off-lease. How long is the process to convince the OEMs this won't degrade their battery packs?

[timsher]

Sounds like you know the struggle :)

In the battery industry there's a saying; liar liar battery supplier. That definitely doesn't help things move fast!

Automotive OEMs do move slowly, but once they see value things definitely speed up - A lot of it has to do with being in front of the right people.

[thesausageking]

Thank you for popping in and clearing that up.

It sounds like this would push the battery harder than they're designed for. Does using your charger void the warranty?

[ReneLec]

Desulfating process while charging?

[ReneLec]

Desulfating?