[Twirrim]

> The many concerns in this thread (and their upvotes) about price (350$) are one of the best examples of the risks of gender imbalance in venture funding I've yet seen.

In a country where 62% of Americans don't even have $1000 in savings, and 21% of Americans don't even have bank accounts?

$350 is a super niche price for a bra.

[DelaneyM]

It is definitely a premium price for a premium product, and absolutely out of reach of many. But that's the case for a great many custom and/or early adopter products.

It's not crazy. I regularly spend 80$+ for bras I don't like, and if I found one which worked with my wardrobe and truly fit comfortably, 350$ would not be a luxury purchase.

[kaybe]

From the comments here I have the feeling that most guys don't understand the pain and point at all, even when we tell them again and again.

[ryanwaggoner]

I know this might seem crazy, but some of us actually know women and can just ask them. My wife thinks $350 is insane for a bra. I have no doubt that you might gladly pay that, but it’s bizarre that you feel entitled to speak for half the global population.

[kaybe]

That was not the point.

edit: The point was that many of the people in the thread don't seem to understand the magnitude and pervasiveness of the problem. What people are prepared to do and pay to alleviate it is another matter entirely, but accordingly it is probably not well estimated if the issue is not well recognized.

[ryanwaggoner]

Actually, the point that I took from you and from DelaneyM was this:

"Men just don't get it. Practically any woman would think that $350 is totally reasonable for the perfect bra, and if you disagree it's because you're a man and you just won't listen to us!"

And my point was that, while I am a man, I do know some women, and your [1] assertion that all women would be happy to pay $350 for a bra is ridiculous. So ridiculous, in fact, that it strikes me as a lot more out-of-touch with womens' views on a reasonable price for a bra than my views as a man on the subject. And to back this up, I asked a real-life-flesh-and-blood-woman, who literally responded with: "Oh fuck no! That's ridiculous!" Others in this thread reported similar things.

1. I recognize that you didn't make this specific claim, but your response to DelaneyM indicated that you agree that the men expressing skepticism is just further proof that they won't listen to you. But you seem to automatically assume that we aren't listening to other women. Perhaps a little humility is in order about how representative your views are to your entire gender.

[kaybe]

How many do you listen to, and how often does this topic come up for you?

[elliekelly]

It's $350 for something that you wear every day. Any woman who has worn a $30 bra from Target will tell you how uncomfortable a budget bra can be.

I'm 30 and I would estimate that I've spent a few thousand dollars in my lifetime on bras that I've only worn once or twice because they just don't fit or wear correctly or they're so uncomfortable that they could be classified as an instrument of torture.

Women are willing to spend $100+/bra at Victoria's Secret and the quality isn't even particularly good (though it's miles better than Target). Victoria's Secret's main value to the customer is consistency. The product is consistently good, not great, but the sizes across all their products are far more consistent than any other store that sells bras. A good fit is the most important component to a comfortable bra. Victoria's Secret demonstrates that women are willing to pay a premium to be able to confidently buy a bra that will probably fit and won't be terribly uncomfortable.

Bratheory is offering women the ability to confidently buy a bra that will definitely fit and won't be uncomfortable. Is $350 a premium? Certainly. But not that much of a premium considering the value proposition for their customers.

[btilly]

Any woman who has worn a $30 bra from Target will tell you how uncomfortable a budget bra can be.

Not quite ANY woman.

Whether it is easy to get a bra that fits depends on the shape of the breasts. Women who have "teardrop breasts" can pick a random bra of roughly the right size and likely be happy. My wife does, and it wasn't until she was reading a site about bra fitting that she understood why she never has the problems that she hears other women complain about.

Given her luck, she has always just picked up cheap bras. Since that's going to work just fine, why pay a premium?

[notyourday]

They dont:

[2015 pricing] https://www.bustle.com/articles/110110-how-much-should-bras-...

[2018 pricing] https://www.businessinsider.com/best-bra

Women do not buy bras at VS for a list price. They buy them on sale. 3 for $100. That's the price and that's the problem that VS has.

Source: filings of LBrands, firings of the CEO, LBrands missing the train of bralettes.

[elliekelly]

Nothing in that article you've linked to says anything about what you've asserted.

Also, Victoria's Secret doesn't do 3/$100 bra sales.

[notyourday]

I linked pricings on the ranges, including the premium segment outside the boutique range. The super-special $350 bra is firmly in the boutique range which requires not just a fitting but a customer service of Saks, Barneys, La Perla boutiques or totally custom shops.

This, at most, is a Telsa 3, priced pretending that it plays in a Ferrari leagues. Musk may say so and so may Tesla fan boys, but even Musk is not pricing Tesla 3 at at $150K. If it is priced at $80, it would work for long enough for them to outsource manufacturing to China, India and Vietnam, which means that the $10 knock offs would be everywhere in 5 months [VS knock offs are in every Chinatown/Koreatown of every US city sold for 1/10th of VS prices. Half of them are probably made at the same factories that make VS originals].

VS certainly does 3 for a hundred if not more during the semi annual sales. The winter one is about to start now.

[dragonwriter]

> The super-special $350 bra is firmly in the boutique range which requires not just a fitting but a customer service of Saks, Barneys, La Perla boutiques or totally custom shops.

If they have a better multidimensional fit model that actually provides better value, and they can get word of mouth on that to get people in the door, they can get away with less boutique treatment the same way that Tesla can get away with less fit and finish than other similarly priced luxury cars.

Just because they are in the same price range in the same broad descriptive category doesn't mean they are selling the same thing.

[shaklee3]

My wife said she wouldn't pay this, even if we could afford it. She said it would have to last 3 years.

[rconti]

I suspect (but don't know) that $100 at VS buys you some confidence/entitlement that it's okay to return if you don't like it, in a VERY different way than $30 at Target, which has much more of a "returning used undergarmets, REALLY?" vibe.

[elliekelly]

I think it's more that I'm less likely to need to return a Victoria's Secret bra. Like most garments, once the tags are off they can't be returned. The problem is a bra can "fit" in the dressing room when I try it on for five minutes but I don't really know how comfortable it is until the tags are off and it's been worn for the day. Either way I can't return it but I'm far less likely to end up with an uncomfortable bra from Victoria's Secret than I am from Target. Although it definitely does sting a bit more when I end up with a $100 Vicky's bra that turns out to be super uncomfortable. That's the gamble though I suppose.

[dahdum]

Doesn’t the average woman own something like 10 bras? Sounds like a couple thousand to outfit yourself in these, and that’s definitely super niche.

[cimmanom]

That’s an average. How many women have far fewer than that?

A lot of women, especially those who are hard to fit, get by with just 1-3 everyday bras that they wear to death because it’s just so frustrating (or impossible) to find more bras that only hurt a little instead of being absolute torture devices.

They may have additional bras for special purposes (such as strapless) or that they can’t really wear to work (lounge bras and bralettes and sports bras and flimsy sexy things that you wear for a few minutes on the way to the bedroom).

But they wear those few primary bras every single day until they wear out.

If you spend all day every day being poked in sensitive tissue by the end of a metal stick, being able to add just one or two perfectly fitting and painless bras to your closet could be game changing.

Other women have no difficulty finding bras that are painless - but their breasts are shaped so differently from manufacturers’ assumptions that finding one that’s both painless and flattering at the same time is basically impossible.

Again, even replacing one quad-boob-creating bra with one that’s flattering but can be worn comfortably all day is a win, even if you’re not going to replace your whole collection.

Do you look at a new bespoke shirt or jacket offering and expect nobody to buy any because replacing their entire wardrobe would be prohibitive?

[uremog]

It's the ever-present question. How many 9s would you like on your service?

[ryacko]

Poor women wear sports bras, not that I would understand the experience.

[kaitai]

They're cheap and fit a huge variety of sizes, if poorly. If you have larger breasts, you just wear two. Not the most comfortable, and doesn't look as nice under clothes as a bra that fits, but cost-effective.

[ryacko]

Never claimed I or they would know anything about hundred dollar undergarments.

[pkaye]

Interesting times we live in where nice shoes can cost $100-$200 and iPhones for $1000 yet 62% of Americans don't even have $1000 in savings.

[randomdata]

The study found that 62% of Americans have less than $1,000 in their savings account. Which is probably no big surprise as a savings account is a pretty horrible place to store any sizeable amount of money, with the near-zero interest rates usually offered on such accounts. At best it is a rainy day fund. $1,000 should easily cover most immediate rainy day needs. Anything more expensive generally gives you some notice to cash out other investments as necessary.

[pkaye]

Why do they always do these surveys on savings accounts instead of sum of all bank accounts to get a better picture?

[pkaye]

Okay found some better information. https://www.valuepenguin.com/banking/average-checking-accoun... Median checking account balance is $3400.

[barrow-rider]

The only person who benefits if you save is you.

Companies benefit when you spend. So start consuming!

[dragonwriter]

Saving is investing (either directly or by, e.g., loaning to a bank to invest.)

Companies benefit when you invest, too, not just when you spend.