[kadendogthing]

Just so you know, your entire comments reacts of bitterness and ignorance. You think their view point on art is stuck in the 20th century, but that's only because you clearly don't understand the type of community you're dealing with. In fact your view point seems extremely myopic and appears to be constrained around your own motivations and hobbies.

>But why is tech framed the opposite of art?

You are fundamentally misunderstanding the issue. It's not tech vs. art. It's a "here's these people that make a lot of money and end up just being really big consumers" vs people that are the "creatives." The type that give a neighborhood flare.

Consider a programmer who perhaps love the "art" of programming and spends the majority of their time coding/tinkering without compensation (a rare prospect these days, admittedly), versus someone who works at a corporate job, does what they need to do, and goes home. Neither is better than the other, but they will end up creating radically different communities.

>Why is tech equal to techbro?

Because it's just the type of people it attracts these days. Name one neighborhood where a group of IT people came into that neighborhood and made it a creative space. Without fail, it just becomes a giant consumer hub with absurd rent prices. Artists tend to congregate in areas with other artists and areas that have cheap rent. Tech tends to drive up rent, and it certainly isn't an industry that attracts artists not centered around digital design.

>Or cryptocurrency?

The technology that did absolutely nothing, soaked up huge amount of raw resources, so techbros could play a game about who's going to be left holding the bag?

This is exactly why I used the term myopic. You might find it interesting and cool, and that's great! But it hasn't done anything for anyone else outside the tech sphere. In fact it's actually pretty easy to argue it's been a net-negative across the board.

[pteredactyl]

I'm bitter and ignorant?

I've lived in these communities of 'creatives'. For years. I know its a lot of drugs, idealism and not a lot of action.

Except for complaining about how wronged they've been by the system. Is that your 'another world is possible'? So maybe I am bitter...

Don't get me wrong, the system is fucked up in many ways. And I agree with your distinction of a grey blandness that permeates the tech culture.

I'm more interested in how all the enlightened 'creatives' can engage with this boring grey techbro community. Because frankly, they're the ones paying for most of their free shit.

[kadendogthing]

I said the statement reeks of bitterness and ignorance. It wasn't a wholesale description of you as a person. It's not black and white.

>Except for complaining about how wronged they've been by the system.

You're still operating off of stereotypes instead of actually talking about the people that live in these communities and the work they do.

>I'm more interested in how all the enlightened 'creatives' can engage with this boring grey techbro community.

I think the techbro community needs to be the one doing the engaging.

[Kalium]

You're right! The tech community absolutely needs to put forth the effort to engage with people who are unlike them. People who live different lives, have different bodies, and make different choices.

I hate to be the one to say it, but in some cases I can see why some people might be reluctant to engage. I know that for my own part, I am generally disinclined to engage in genuine, kind, compassionate, and empathetic ways with people who treat me with what can feel like open hostility. It's almost always less emotional labor to tell them "Have a nice day" and walk away, putting them out of my mind. My making this choice does nothing at all to further any kind of constructive engagement, and certainly nothing to improve their lives or alleviate their pain and suffering, but it does make my life easier that day.

Again, you're completely right. Techrbos need to engage! It's just that at times it can be challenging to convince people of this basic truth when they find unfriendly receptions.

[kadendogthing]

> in some cases I can see why some people might be reluctant to engage.

Within the tech community, it's really just ego and myopic view points and experiences.

>convince people of this basic truth when they find unfriendly receptions.

As a matter of practicality, it's easier to deflate the obstacle.

[Kalium]

> Within the tech community, it's really just ego and myopic view points and experiences.

I definitely understand that. Tech people are too self-centerd and shortsighted to look or care about others! If they tried, they'd surely find it a highly rewarding experience. It's patently obvious that none of these asshole techbros has ever actually tried at all, right?

After all, if they had stepped outside their narrow worldviews and bubbles of greed and privilege then it would be obvious. They would think differently. Act differently. Believe differently. Value other things than they currently do. It's not possible that someone could be exposed to the glory of art, creativity, and expression without being moved to value it!

They'd stop acting as locusts, devouring all they come across because it looks tasty and destroying everything in their paths. They'd start acting in considered, conscious, intentional ways. They'd value community.

> As a matter of practicality, it's easier to deflate the obstacle.

I confess, I'm really not sure what you mean by "deflate the obstacle". Or what this means beyond a metaphor I think I don't understand. Could you please help me here? I would very much like to be able to engage substantively with whatever it is you are trying to say.

[kadendogthing]

> It's patently obvious that none of these asshole techbros has ever actually tried at all, right?

It's also pretty obvious when techbro's lack any kind of liberal arts education, or general praxis around the various subjects encompassed in liberal arts. You typically see this in discussions around government or social policies. But it can rear its head in literature to, like when the usage of satire is so out of place and crudely crafted one can't help but wonder how self-aware the person misusing it is.

> It's not possible that someone could be exposed to the glory of art, creativity, and expression without being moved to value it!

Well it certainly is possible and even likely. No one ever made any kind of point insinuating that, or even broached that subject about changing hobbies or what you enjoy. So you've definitely just misunderstood the entire discussion. I recommend rereading the topic post and this thread.

> I'm really not sure what you mean by "deflate the obstacle".

The obstacle being ego.

>I would very much like to be able to engage substantively

Well you can help yourself out by not wasting an enormous amount of energy and craftsmanship around... whatever it is you are doing.

[malvosenior]

A lot of developers who work at places like Google also:

* Develop software on the side for free (art)

* Work on open source software during working hours sponsored by their host company

* Can afford to have families (I notice "vibrant" communities didn't include those with children in them)

> Or cryptocurrency?

Like it or not, Bitcoin is very artistic. Innovative, novel, spurs conversation and strong reactions...

I think it's you who's actually stuck in the 20th century mentality. Cultivating urban hipster hotspots full of "artists" is pure 20th century bohemian chic.