[pteredactyl]

I'm bitter and ignorant?

I've lived in these communities of 'creatives'. For years. I know its a lot of drugs, idealism and not a lot of action.

Except for complaining about how wronged they've been by the system. Is that your 'another world is possible'? So maybe I am bitter...

Don't get me wrong, the system is fucked up in many ways. And I agree with your distinction of a grey blandness that permeates the tech culture.

I'm more interested in how all the enlightened 'creatives' can engage with this boring grey techbro community. Because frankly, they're the ones paying for most of their free shit.

[kadendogthing]

I said the statement reeks of bitterness and ignorance. It wasn't a wholesale description of you as a person. It's not black and white.

>Except for complaining about how wronged they've been by the system.

You're still operating off of stereotypes instead of actually talking about the people that live in these communities and the work they do.

>I'm more interested in how all the enlightened 'creatives' can engage with this boring grey techbro community.

I think the techbro community needs to be the one doing the engaging.

[Kalium]

You're right! The tech community absolutely needs to put forth the effort to engage with people who are unlike them. People who live different lives, have different bodies, and make different choices.

I hate to be the one to say it, but in some cases I can see why some people might be reluctant to engage. I know that for my own part, I am generally disinclined to engage in genuine, kind, compassionate, and empathetic ways with people who treat me with what can feel like open hostility. It's almost always less emotional labor to tell them "Have a nice day" and walk away, putting them out of my mind. My making this choice does nothing at all to further any kind of constructive engagement, and certainly nothing to improve their lives or alleviate their pain and suffering, but it does make my life easier that day.

Again, you're completely right. Techrbos need to engage! It's just that at times it can be challenging to convince people of this basic truth when they find unfriendly receptions.

[kadendogthing]

> in some cases I can see why some people might be reluctant to engage.

Within the tech community, it's really just ego and myopic view points and experiences.

>convince people of this basic truth when they find unfriendly receptions.

As a matter of practicality, it's easier to deflate the obstacle.

[Kalium]

> Within the tech community, it's really just ego and myopic view points and experiences.

I definitely understand that. Tech people are too self-centerd and shortsighted to look or care about others! If they tried, they'd surely find it a highly rewarding experience. It's patently obvious that none of these asshole techbros has ever actually tried at all, right?

After all, if they had stepped outside their narrow worldviews and bubbles of greed and privilege then it would be obvious. They would think differently. Act differently. Believe differently. Value other things than they currently do. It's not possible that someone could be exposed to the glory of art, creativity, and expression without being moved to value it!

They'd stop acting as locusts, devouring all they come across because it looks tasty and destroying everything in their paths. They'd start acting in considered, conscious, intentional ways. They'd value community.

> As a matter of practicality, it's easier to deflate the obstacle.

I confess, I'm really not sure what you mean by "deflate the obstacle". Or what this means beyond a metaphor I think I don't understand. Could you please help me here? I would very much like to be able to engage substantively with whatever it is you are trying to say.

[kadendogthing]

> It's patently obvious that none of these asshole techbros has ever actually tried at all, right?

It's also pretty obvious when techbro's lack any kind of liberal arts education, or general praxis around the various subjects encompassed in liberal arts. You typically see this in discussions around government or social policies. But it can rear its head in literature to, like when the usage of satire is so out of place and crudely crafted one can't help but wonder how self-aware the person misusing it is.

> It's not possible that someone could be exposed to the glory of art, creativity, and expression without being moved to value it!

Well it certainly is possible and even likely. No one ever made any kind of point insinuating that, or even broached that subject about changing hobbies or what you enjoy. So you've definitely just misunderstood the entire discussion. I recommend rereading the topic post and this thread.

> I'm really not sure what you mean by "deflate the obstacle".

The obstacle being ego.

>I would very much like to be able to engage substantively

Well you can help yourself out by not wasting an enormous amount of energy and craftsmanship around... whatever it is you are doing.

[Kalium]

> The obstacle being ego.

Ah. Well. At least I now understand what you mean. Though I've found deflating the egos of every person in a discussion to be a difficult task. Telling a person getting a hostile reception to get their ego out of the way tends to come across a lot like telling someone to take the licks they deserve, complete with generally being discarded out of hand. Telling a person who feels righteous anger to deflate their ego tends to be seen as telling them their feelings aren't valid.

It's definitely possible for it to work! But I've rarely seen it accomplished.

> Well you can help yourself out by not wasting an enormous amount of energy and craftsmanship around... whatever it is you are doing.

Trying to understand you, establishing myself as someone who isn't your enemy, so we could have an actual discussion. And maybe help you understand the people you appear to viscerally despise as human beings with wants and needs and desires and goals and communities, just like the ones you love and wish to protect so that we can work towards what's best for everyone.

I'm sorry we couldn't have that discussion. I felt like it could have been productive for everyone. Have a wonderful day!