[user9182031]

It seems like every day somebody has figured out how to beat type 2 diabetes. I just read Proteinaholic by Dr. Garth Davis who advocates a vegan lifestyle (while telling you that carbs are not the enemy) to cure diabetes.

[teekert]

Carbohydrates come in many forms, simple ones like sugar make your blood sugar spike and this is widely considered bad (and what leads to diabetes type 2). Complex ones take very long to digest, some can even only be digested by your microbiome, deep in your gut, those carbohydrates make for a consistent, stable, small flow of sugar to the blood. Which is considered a good thing.

Try eating oats (no sugar, just yogurt and fruit for sweetening, don't get tricked into thinking honey or brown sugar is healthy sugar ;) I personally like strawberry or pomegranate but the latter is pretty expensive even in-season). Or try heavy whole wheat bread (with something like peanut-only peanut butter) and see how much longer it takes before you get hungry again, compare it to breakfast cereals or white bread. I really notice the difference. If you like sweet, try backing a cake from oats and banana (and some flour, pancakes of oat and banana are also very nice by the way), perhaps add some nuts as well. Works great for me (results of delayed hunger in the day are immediate, which is motivating). Oats are cheap, bananas generally as well.

[fencepost]

It's worth being aware that milk and milk products can actually have a pretty significant amount of sugar in the form of lactose.

"If you're lactose intolerant and looking for yogurt, go Greek. Greek yogurt, which is thicker because much of the whey, the watery part of milk, has been strained out in processing. This also removes much of the lactose. Greek yogurt supplies less than 6.8 grams of lactose per 6-ounce serving, compared to less than 8.5 grams in whole-fat yogurt or 14 grams in non-fat yogurt. Hard cheeses such as cheddar have even less lactose, between 0 to 2 grams per ounce. Milk, in comparison, has approximately 11 grams in one cup." (from https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/can-lactose-intolerant-eat-...)

[bad_user]

Our metabolism is very complex. But if it's not backed up by studies and science, it doesn't count.

Type 2 diabetes is defined by insulin resistance. The only way to "beat" type 2 diabetes is to lower your insulin resistance and thus to lower your insulin response. At the moment you can only lower your insulin with lifestyle changes that implies fasting + eating a diet that triggers a low insulin response.

The vegan lifestyle is high in carbs. What many people don't understand is that there are only 3 macro-nutrients: proteins, fats and carbs. You cannot do a low carbs diet without at least eggs and diary. And carbs stimulate insulin.

Note that there are clinics that have successfully treated people of diabetes via fasting. Here's one: https://idmprogram.com/

N.B. carbohydrates are not the enemy, but _refined carbohydrates_ are and unfortunately for a type 2 diabetic it's too late to switch to healthy carbs.

Yes, a potato is healthy, however for a diabetic it is basically poison.

[teekert]

Complex carbs (fibers or at least carbohydrates that are slowly digested) do not stimulate insulin production as far as I know. I think it is very important to realize that there are different types of carbohydrates. You need fuel (carbs/sugars), you just don't need them to get rushed into your blood at breakneck speeds requiring massive insulin dosages to bring it back down. You want them supplied slowly and steadily to your blood during the day and night. Which is what happens when your body and your gut microbes slowly degrade complex carbs into smaller constituents, such as sugars.

[com2kid]

There are people doing vegan keto. It is theoretically possible.

I imagine it is the most boring diet in the world though. :)

From what I've heard vegetarian Keto isn't too bad.

I'd worry about getting healthy oils on a vegan keto diet, healthy vegetable oils get expensive very fast. Most keto diets don't pay much attention to fat sources, but while lots of canola oil technically meets the macros, it'd not be healthy at all...

[moate]

Point of order: Many nutritionists would disagree with your definition of a macronutrient. If you're talking about bio-energy sources, you're leaving out Alcohol, which is metabolized differently than Carbs. If you're talking "things your body needs in great volume" water, fiber and antioxidants should be on the list.

Sorry, this is just a pet-peeve about how the Fitness/bodybuilding community talk about "macros".

[camelNotation]

There are a lot of ways to look at that, but I think what all these "cures" have in common is that they drastically reduce the amount of sugar in your diet and allow the body to essentially rest and reset its insulin response. I don't think it really matters how you do it as long as you do that.

[cageface]

Note that protein also provokes an insulin response. This is why a steak will actually result in more insulin release than a plate of spaghetti.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_index

[bad_user]

> This is why a steak will actually result in more insulin release than a plate of spaghetti.

That's bullshit, but yes, proteins do provoke an insulin response, which can be unhealthy with enough proteins. Note however that proteins != fat and fat does not provoke an insulin response.

And yes, for diabetics fat meat is healthier than lean meat.

Also note that fat and proteins keep you satisfied for longer, so you end up eating less meals per day. This is not about calories, but about the insulin response.

If you keep eating, the insulin does not go down.

[jackhack]

Can we please keep YC a civil place without the entirely unnecessary profanity which is pervasive everywhere else?

It's fine to disagree; but do so based on the strength of your argument and facts.

[cageface]

This is a direct measurement of blood insulin levels. It's not somebody's opinion. Complex carbs are extremely satiating and plenty of people have reversed type 2 diabetes eating high carb diets.

[com2kid]

I seriously question that satiety index.

I can, quite literally, eat 2000+ calories of potatoes and not be full. I make a damned good loaded baked potato, and good mashed potatoes for that matter. Are they talking about a plain boiled potato with nothing on it or something? (even then, boiled red potatoes are good... :) )

Or oranges for that matter. Give me a 2lb bag of satsuma oranges and I'll give you back an empty bag a short time later.

Listing beef as lower than oranges is incredibly weird to me. Apparently the average satsuma is 4oz, realistically compare two of those tiny mandarin oranges to an 8oz steak, the steak will satiate more and for a longer period of time. No study is needed to prove that.

Unless they were comparing by "equivalent calorie consumption" in which case the chart is useless, but sure, 1 mandarin orange is probably better than 1oz of steak. (~64 calories in 1 mandarin orange, ~77 calories in 1oz of steak).

Trying to make an actual meal out of the oranges would be, naturally, quite pointless, where as the steak scales up to a meal quite well.

And this is why a huge % of nutritional studies are useless for day to day living.

Naturally YMMV and I know people who are satiated off of small portion of high carb foods, but people who can eat a small bowl of ice cream and be full are the minority, with my evidence of that assertion being America's waistline (and the average serving size of ice cream).

[cageface]

2000 calories of potatoes is like 15 potatoes. You can really eat that many potatoes in a day?

[com2kid]

Not without toppings.

But I can make one hell of a loaded baked potato.

Or cheesy mashed potatoes.

Pretty much no one eats just a regular potato.

Which is where the table falls apart. You can cook up a steak with some salt and pepper, or a good steak with nothing at all on it, and eat it just like that.

A regular boiled potato? Meh.

[cageface]

Satiety index is just a measure of how full you are after eating something. It’s not meant to factor in how much you enjoy eating it, which is of course a very subjective thing.

Myself I’d rather eat 15 potatoes than a steak any day. I like them with a lot of herbs and spices which add a lot of other nutrients.

[Zimahl]

> This is why a steak will actually result in more insulin release than a plate of spaghetti.

As the husband of a type-1 diabetic I can assure you this is absolutely wrong. Fats and proteins are practically insignificant to carbohydrates, essentially they are inconsequential when calculating insulin injections.

[InitialLastName]

Note that your husband doesn't actually release any insulin. So it's not about calculating appropriate insulin injections, it's about how insulin a normally-functioning body releases in response to eating food.

[cageface]

This is a scientifically measured insulin response. It's not somebody's opinion. Note that this is different from blood sugar levels. You'll find the same numbers on every insulin chart.

[GordonS]

Sorry, but this is just demonstrably untrue.

I regularly check my blood sugar levels and protein doesn't affect them at all, whereas eating a bowl of spaghetti will raise it a lot.

[godshatter]

I'm fine living in a world where there are many ways to "beat" type 2 diabetes. Intermittent fasting (I eat one meal a day) has dropped my A1C from 8.9 to 5.5 (probably less, now). I've been doing this for about 15 months so far. My type 2 diabetes is not cured, if I drop off the diet and go back to my old habits my A1C will undoubtedly go right back up. But it's an easy diet to live with, especially since I don't limit myself and can eat whatever I want, though given the choice I'll try to reduce the worst refined carbs.

The high carb / low fat diet isn't one of the ways to beat type 2, though, and it's still the one pushed by many dieticians.

[supernovae]

I went vegan for 5 years, my cholesterol kept getting worse in every way.

Now i do keto, and my cholesterol is happy. Diabetes wasn't my direct concern but i find it interesting how eating a ton of eggs every day has improved my balance.