[p3llin0r3]

Cheating in video games is extremely common. It is a huge issue with online video games.

I tend to be "that guy" when playing games, pointing people out when I believe they are cheating. Sometimes they are, sometimes they are not. Unfortunately it's become impossible to tell due to the sophistication of the hacks:

- You hit a button, triggering your aim-bot, and it will swing to hit you in a natural looking way.

- You toggle "auto-cast" on in a moba, and suddenly your zoning becomes completely unstoppable.

With cheap games like Overwatch and FREE games like Fortnight or League of Legends, a ban is a very minor inconvenience. You're already paying $10/mo for the hack, so having to re-purchase a $20 copy of Overwatch is not seen as a huge burden. PC Bangs are popular in many cultures, so all of this might even be included in the hourly fee you pay.

It's a crisis in the industry, where competitive online games are hugely popular, the drive towards "balance" is obsessive, and people want to play a fair game.

I suspect the amount cheating is a dirty secret in the industry, much more prolific than they decide to let on. Thousands of people are banned every day.

Nobody publicly releases the number of people they ban, but you get little nuggets of information occasionally:

- https://kotaku.com/pubg-banned-over-1-million-cheaters-last-... ( This number was later raised to 1.5 million accounts )

OR I've adjusted my tin-foil hat to be a bit tight, and there is no issue.

[ergothus]

> I tend to be "that guy" when playing games, pointing people out when I believe they are cheating. Sometimes they are, sometimes they are not.

What value do you believe you are adding by throwing accusations out at anyone that is good? Doesn't that just water down accusations to meaninglessness?

Cheaters exist, and while many will find a rationalization no matter what, this sort of reaction makes the "everyone is doing it, I'm just keeping up" rationalization much easier to adopt. I've never cheated in an online multiplayer game, but the one time I was tempted was when I read an article that said everyone did it. Just one article, but I was ready to take it on faith until I rethought it.

[p3llin0r3]

To be more clear: I'm speaking specifically to my friends who I usually am playing with in Discord. I don't bother speaking in the public channels. A simple report is all I communicate to the outside world.

[13years]

> a ban is a very minor inconvenience

At least for fortnite. They do HW ID bans. So it is a substantial inconvenience.

However, I wonder what are the limitations to architecting a game like World Of Tanks. One of the reasons I have really enjoyed that game is the inherit limitations on cheating due to the fact most of the games runs server side. The client can't do magic cheats like in games like Fortnite.

[p3llin0r3]

I am willing to bet World of Tanks has aim-bots and wall-hacks, though cheats like god-mode and speed hacks are almost unheard-of at this point.

For a twitchy game to have decent performance, the client-side needs to have enough information to render the scene in front of you. This information is leveraged by hackers to write the cheats.

Knowing what a person is "allowed" to see server-side is extremely difficult, and would cause horrible latency issues[0]. Additionally it would completely ruin the ability to to predictive rendering on the front-end further causing latency.

[0] You would have to know which direction the user is facing, where their opponents are standing and what direction they are facing, and calculate the user's view based on all of this information. This is what is usually done on the client-side.

[13years]

There are cheats, but they just don't have a substantial benefit. There are no wall-hacks. Aimbots exist, but aren't that useful. The game already has autoaim builtin, but is rarely used.

The client has fairly limited information. A tank you can't see isn't known to the client. The server only accepts intentions from the client. Such as I want to move forward, I am shooting etc. Everything else is calculated on the server. The server determines if a shot hits, not the client.

Apparently god like mode cheats are available in games like Fortnite however.

In this example, it appears the client can pretty much do anything. Apparently it can kill players anywhere on the map, have unlimited resources etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0_X1MBaM1s

[YouKnowBetter]

Used to play and love WoT, untill I started suspecting particular teammates to cheat. I then started looking for cheats, found a Russian who rents out "tools" that work and give you the exact advantage over normal players I was expecting my teammates to have (aimbots, laserlines, wallhacks, enemy reload info, etc).

Deleted the game a week later.

This is just an example of one game that I had to let go of, there are dozens who I abandoned in my 20 years of online computer gaming.

Currently I play WoW :( Super boring, super slow, super not sensitive to hacks that effect me.

[vorpalhex]

I genuinely don't understand the pull of cheating in a competitive game. The whole goal is that it's a contest of skill and wits, and the "prize" is simply the emotional gratification and internet points (and when you win by cheating you remove those prizes.)

Cheating makes sense in gambling where money is at play, but your fortnight level/win-loss/etc doesn't equate to anything of value.

[p3llin0r3]

What other people think of you is also an enticing reward. Getting to platinum rank by cheating has advantages.

Additionally, you earn cosmetic items, and you can earn them at a faster rate with less effort by winning consistently.

Finally, some people simply enjoy winning, and only turn their cheats on for a "comeback."

An additional issue is people running bots that passively and extremely poorly play the game, but just active enough to not sound any alarms. They grind out a bunch of ranks by losing constantly, get some good equipment built up, and then sell them.

[plopz]

> and when you win by cheating you remove those prizes

I don't think you do. When you win while cheating it doesn't just suddenly feel meaningless, it still feels like winning.

[adrianN]

Unless you are (or aspire to become) a popular streamer.

[izzydata]

It doesn't help that it isn't particularly difficult to embed these sophisticated cheats into peripherals such as mice and keyboards. Someone could be cheating 1 foot away from you while you watch and have it be difficult to tell.

I am skeptical of the legitimacy of most "professional" gamers at this point. If there is money to be made you better believe people will exploit it by whatever means possible.

[eutropia]

It sounds like you think that most pro gamers are cheating. Isn't that akin to claiming a massive conspiracy? Wouldn't someone have been found out by now?

[p3llin0r3]

There is 100% cheating and match-fixing going on in professional gaming. It's some interesting reading!

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Match_Fixing_Scandal

[obelix_]

Interesting data there probably for a social psychologists/sociologist to dig into. More interesting than the amount of cheaters in a population or whether thats a fixed amount is how many go on to win and influence gaming culture (both the player and the designer).

[sathackr]

How can any of these games be fair with the all of the new pay-to-play models?

I don't play Fortnite but I see "V-Bucks" available to purchase from the Microsoft store, so I assume it's the same.

Anyone with enough money can just go buy all the upgrades and dominate.

Maybe those cheating don't have the money to buy the gear, so they're trying to level the field in a way that's reachable to them.

edit: apparently the pay-to-play upgrades in Fortnite are cosmetic only. Not sure about the others.

[soulnothing]

I installed and gave fortnite a quick try. I liked the gameplay. But it felt like a mobile game on the pc. The V-Bucks you mention are purchased with cash. But they're used to buy the equivalent of a card pack. You have no idea what you're getting. It was also riddled with notifications, exclamation marks all over the place of things you need to check.

I've only played save the world. Which is a small team against a computer. That is where you get these card packs. Which you give heros, survivors, traps, materials, weapons, etc.

[owlninja]

Just as an FYI "V-Bucks" in Fortnite only change the cosmetics of your character, you cannot purchase an actual advantage.

[sathackr]

Guess that's what I get for ass-u-me-ng..

Was going off the description "...In Save the World you can purchase Llama Pinata card packs that contain weapon, trap and gadget schematics..."

in which I took weapon, trap, and gadget schematics to mean something that could give you an advantage.

[jimminy]

Fortnite only offers cosmetic purchases.

Monetary exchange through this game, and many others, in this format of money for cosmetic content does not alter the gameplay mechanics in any way.

At best you could argue a marginal camouflage impact, but that is so minor it is effectively non-existent.

[p3llin0r3]

Fortnight and Overwatch both ONLY offer cosmetic improvements, so you cannot gain an edge by spending money.

Many many games have taken this model, though. I love TCG games, but they're so stupidly expensive and pay to win I've given up.