[vmarshall23]

This has long driven me crazy. I have a version of this argument with my wife every few weeks. I live in a city that has three bins: compost, landfill, and recycling, and overall the city (SF) does a really good job apparently of sorting trash.

But if you want a system that doesn't break down if someone throws a handful of batteries in the compost bin, then someone or something somewhere still has to sort the trash stream.

So, at best, you've used all the labor of everyone in SF to reduce the number of people/things/processes downstream to sort the trash properly.

So, yes, the ball is ultimately in the manufacturer's court for a lot of this, but home recycling is at best a terrible use of labor/time/money. Raise taxes to hire more sorting capability, because if it requires 100 more trained humans sorting somewhere downstream that's surely less than all-the-people-in-SF-a-few-minutes-everyday to do a less-than-perfect job.

Also, I think a lot of these laws also do another disservice in that they make people feel like they're doing something to help the situation which keeps them from actually solving the problem.

Like the new plastic straws ban to keep plastic out of the ocean. If the problem is "keep plastic out of the ocean", then solve "why does plastic get in the ocean" problem. Banning plastic straws might be part of the solution, but what seems to happen so often is that we make one of these "feel-good" laws that keeps a negligible amount of plastic out of the ocean, and I have to drink out of a shitty straw, and people think that someone we've made substantive progress to a real solution.

[freeone3000]

Single-stream recycling is a good alternative to this, and has been implemented in Austin. They essentially take your idea to the limit - if someone has to go through it anyway, why not just put it all in one big bin and sort it out later? So they do. Mostly works?

[dpkonofa]

According to the article, that doesn't work at all, though. Not only does the stuff not get sorted properly in the end but things that could have potentially been recycled are now unable to be recycled because they're contaminated.

That doesn't sound like a "mostly works" scenario except in the most bare definition of the phrase.

[ada1981]

I think it “mostly works” for the company with the cushy contract to provide single stream recycling.

[hw]

Plastic straws end up in the ocean because straws are given out when people purchase drinks. Those straws are then thrown indiscriminately into rivers or the ocean, or thrown off a cruise/boat, or left by the beach for the tides to swallow them up. You can't fix human behavior as there will always be people who just don't give a f. A ban on plastic straws is probably one of the best solutions.

On the whole multi-bin thing that puts the burden on people to sort their trash - I totally agree with you. I've never understood why that was necessary. In the end, the trash still needs to be sorted anyway, since, again, some people DGAF.

[skosch]

You're not wrong, but home diversion isn't entirely pointless. The best tax-funded downstream sorting system is no match for the moldy lasagna covering the scrap paper in your OmniToss Multi-Bin™.

[scythe]

Moving towards a standard where all food waste is compostable (except, probably, metal cans) seems like a big step forward. Food waste is generally the most unpleasant to handle, so its presence makes sorting the remainder of the stream more difficult. In Japan, some municipalities have a special system for food waste:

https://www.japanfs.org/en/news/archives/news_id027774.html

[sirmarksalot]

This sounds like a difficult problem, because compostability and shelf stability are contradictory goals. Pretty much by definition, anything that doesn't break down on a store shelf after a day, is going to pile up in the compost pile. It's not a problem for fresh foods intended to be consumed that day, but if your produce bags were compostable, they would not be very useful.

[sfink]

My produce bags are compostable, and they work fine. For one, they don't need to last very long - you can't keep produce for weeks anyway. For another, they mostly only break down in the environment of a municipal composting system, which gets hot and is quite different from your backyard compost heap.

Grocery stores around where i live in the sf bay area seem to be switching to them. I think they tried earlier, but I'm guessing they were too much more expensive?

Quite a marvel of engineering, from what i can tell.

Your point still stands though - shelf packaging needs to be pretty robust.

[saint_fiasco]

> Also, I think a lot of these laws also do another disservice in that they make people feel like they're doing something to help the situation which keeps them from actually solving the problem.

Suppose home recycling is pointless and all it does is annoy consumers for no reason. Could that cause consumers to buy things in packages that are easier to recycle? It's possible that if government took care of that, consumers would stop caring about it and produce a lot more trash.

[vmarshall23]

To be clear, I'm not saying home recycling is completely pointless. I think it does a lot to raise awareness that "all this has to go someplace, so at least think about it". But that's PR, not a solution.

I'd prefer some sort of solution that directly impacted your wallet if you didn't give a shit about what waste you produce. I'm not sure what that is, but a similar example would be "save water during a drought" or just "save water" PR campaigns. Don't waste everyone's time with a bunch of easily-ignored signs and commercials. Charge 5 bucks a gallon for water. When your sprinkler watering the sidewalk all night costs you 1500 dollars, you'll be sure not to do that twice.

And you save money on TV commercials and waste less trees making posters. :-)

[unit91]

> I have a version of this argument with my wife every few weeks.

You make some good points here no doubt, but recycling is definitely not worth arguing with your wife over. Be loving and overlook her (perceived) faults.

[folkrav]

I'd argue that having (respectful) arguments is a pretty healthy thing for a couple.

[ada1981]

One solution to this problem is for one of you to develop a serious drug habit or to have an affair.

[strainer]

I expect compostable waste is just so messy its less work overall to keep it separate. But if it is as economical to separate after mixing as you expect, then its a business opportunity.

[ErikVandeWater]

> If the problem is "keep plastic out of the ocean", then solve "why does plastic get in the ocean" problem.

But then how can someone start a KickStarter so you have to carry a thick metal straw around with you all day and then have to think about cleaning every time you use it, and in between different drinks if you don't want to have your first drink contaminate the taste of the second? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/908228738/finalstraw-th...

[donatj]

I just stopped using straws a couple years ago when I got my tonsils out and couldn't use them – never went back.

Just drink like you would from any other cup. You don't need a straw. And honest to god things taste better without a straw. You'll drink less sugary trash and appreciate it more.

[recursive]

It's slightly inconvenient with my super cool mustache.

[oldcynic]

A Kickstarter opportunity for some sort of fashionable IoT enabled moustache drinking shield.

[ada1981]

On the blockchain.