[threeseed]

I don't think have any idea how any of this really works. The issue that Apple has with Maps and Siri is lack of data. They simply don't have all of the street view or POI data which allows them to accurately identify businesses or identify gaps in mapping data. Likewise for Siri they don't have access to Google's Knowledge Graph and Apple's position on privacy limits what personal data is available.

None of this is a reflection on Apple's abilities in Data Science in which they've done some outstanding work on with (a) differential privacy with iOS and (b) FaceID.

And just because the Maps and Siri teams have issues of there own doesn't mean Apple has to stop everything they are doing until it is fixed. They can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[dangero]

How does Siri have a lack of data? They send all Siri requests to their servers. They have it all. It's not a data problem with Siri, and to excuse Apple Maps after all these years --- come on, they have unlimited budget. There is no excuse at all. If this is the outcome after all this time they should have never made maps at all. I'm an Apple fan and I'm saying this.

[jakobegger]

In my experience, there’s no problem with data about roads, routing etc in Apple Maps. That stuff works well, and in some cases even better than Google (Google Maps makes hilarious mispronunciations for German names that sometimes make it hard to follow voice instructions).

Where Apple fails miserably is search, and local place names. Apple Maps data will often show results in a different country instead of whatever I meant to search for in my city. Trying to find businesses if you don’t know the full official names is practically impossible.

Apple Maps works great if you know the official address, but it’s pretty much useless for anything else.

[Reason077]

The Apple Maps location search experience has improved hugely in the last several years, at least here in the UK.

It's still not quite up there with Google Map's location knowledge, but it's certainly not the often-innacurate mess it once was.

The big difference I see now days comes down to how quickly the data is updated. To test this, take a newly opened (or closed) restaurant or store and compare Apple and Google's knowledge of the location.

Google tends to have it almost immediately, presumably because Google provides tools for the business owners to enter the information directly. But Apple's knowledge can lag behind by a few weeks, or more for more obscure things. This is presumably due to their dependence on third-party data providers like Yelp.

[jacksmith21006]

I will go back and try Apple maps from time to time.

It will just do crazy stuff. Ask for something and want you to drive, literally, to something 300 miles away. It is easily confused when you use something by it's name.

But trying to use Apple Maps on holiday in Europe was almost useless.

Then so many other things. Google Maps will tell you if the place will be open or closed when you will get there for example.

Apple use to stand for providing the best products. The best user experience. Somehow that has been lost and become acceptable to do a poor job.

Same with Siri. It is just an awful user experience compared to using the Google Assistant.

Guess my question is why is this acceptable? Look at their privacy agreement and you approve them collecting all kinds of data so that is not it. Heck Apple even forces you to accept them collecting data on people you interact with in the US.

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/

"When you share your content with family and friends using Apple products, send gift certificates and products, or invite others to participate in Apple services or forums, Apple may collect the information you provide about those people such as name, mailing address, email address, and phone number. Apple will use such information to fulfill your requests, provide the relevant product or service, or for anti-fraud purposes."

I am tired of Apple getting a pass on offering a poor user experience. What they use to be all about.

[Accacin]

Trying to use Google Maps in Japan was useless, using the buses in Kyoto it wouldn't tell me what stop I'm at, etc. Apple maps could tell me exactly what stop I was at whereas Google Maps was lacking in information.

Also, with regards to the blog link, why would you care about how detailed the buildings on the map are for daily use? And Google will tell me if something will be closed by the time I get there. But it's usually wrong for me.

[jacksmith21006]

It is the same when on holiday in Europe. Disappointing Apple does not do something about it and ok with having a product with a worse UX than competitors.

I remember when Apple approach was to be the best.

[lumisota]

Apple provides similar tooling for businesses [0].

[0]: https://mapsconnect.apple.com

[Angostura]

> The big difference I see now days comes down to how quickly the data is updated.

To be fair to Apple, tehy are very responsive if you report. I quite often use the in-Map tool for reporting a problem with a location and these days get a 'Its been fixed' within a few days or a week.

[jacksmith21006]

In the end it is about user experience and Apple has failed to provide a competitive user experience with Apple Maps and Siri for that matter. To be that is not excusable.

It has now been long enough for them to get it better and worries me that it is just now acceptable at Apple.

[sbuk]

What rot. Google have a 7 year head start on Apple in terms of mapping. To expect Apple to offer a service at a similar standard immediately is preposterous! Besides, Apple can pinpoint my address, Google cant, despite being repeatedly told.

Siri is nowhere near as bad as you suggest. You are exaggerating to make a point.

[Angostura]

I tend to disagree in that I use Apple Maps a lot when driving in the UK. Google is better in some respects, but not substantially. Siri is fine for what I use it for - playing music, setting timers, sending messages.

[sbuk]

> It's still not quite up there with Google Map's location knowledge

Depends on where you are. Goole maps are surprisingly poor in parts of London.

[sbuk]

So Google's maps aren't poor in London? Prove it. I can prove that they are poor in my area...

[jacksmith21006]

Apple use to stand for providing the best user experience. I am old and been a fan of Apple for a long time.

For some reason it is now acceptable to provide a bad user experience and Apple Maps is a perfect example compared to Waze or Google Maps. But the gap is increasing.

It is the same with Siri. So will it be acceptable if an Apple self driving cars kills people?

I just do not get the excuses for Apple? Why have they moved from what they use to stand for?

[akvadrako]

Apple doesn't store Siri recordings for more than a short period for privacy's sake, unlike Google.

[jacksmith21006]

That is an excuse. Wish we could put it to rest. Here is the privacy agreement for Apple in the US.

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/

Apple has the ability to collect all the same data as Google but actually more. Apple actually forces you to agree to them collecting data on people you interact with.

I quote from the agreement.

"When you share your content with family and friends using Apple products, send gift certificates and products, or invite others to participate in Apple services or forums, Apple may collect the information you provide about those people such as name, mailing address, email address, and phone number. "

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/

I get Apple is great at marketing but lets work in reality.

My issue is NOT that the Apple services are sub par but rather when did it become acceptable at Apple to have second rate user experiences?

Why are they given a pass?

[pentae]

They can chew gum and walk at the same time? Like keeping their $20bn/yr Mac lineup current while running an iPhone business?

[jacksmith21006]

That is an excuse. Plus read the privacy agreement and Apple has full access to your data. Here is their privacy agreement for your reference for the US.

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/

Heck they can collect who you associate with. I quote from the document.

"When you share your content with family and friends using Apple products, send gift certificates and products, or invite others to participate in Apple services or forums, Apple may collect the information you provide about those people such as name, mailing address, email address, and phone number. "

Historically been a big Apple hardware user but have to admit less and less. Most being replaced by Google hardware. Do carry both a Pixel 2 XL and a iPhone now as just could wait no longer for Apple to fix their products.

Replaced my Mac with a Pixel Book also for example. As well as our AirPort Extremes with Google WiFi.

I find it baffling that it is now acceptable to have poor products. The Apple that I loved for so many years NEVER settled for being good enough.

[r00fus]

> Replaced my Mac with a Pixel Book also for example. As well as our AirPort Extremes with Google WiFi.

Some of your examples make sense but why replace your Airport with a (data mining built-in) Google WiFi? Why not a known good provider like e.g. Ubiquiti? I use their Amplifi and it works great, no "cloud" crap and their brand is reputable.

[propogandist]

you've quoted a privacy policy that says apple will capture data when you share content, but then go onto say you're using Google products including their Wifi device, which is generally governed by Google's catchall privacy policy, which enables mass data mining.

[jacksmith21006]

Here is Google privacy agreement.

https://policies.google.com/privacy/update

As you can see Google agreement in reality is more limited than Apple. Google does not collect personal data from people you interact with that have not agreed like Apple.

That was my point.

BTW, have Google WiFi and a fantastic product. Replaced our AirPort Extremes and highly recommend.

What I also love is Google provides a dashboard on everything they collect all in one place and you can remove or download if you want. I am in the US and really wish Apple would provide the same transparency as Google.

I tend to be for little government but if Apple is not going to do it on their own like Google then think government should consider forcing them to.

Headlines like

“Apple TV service will share viewing data with networks, report claims”

Read more at http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/apple-tv-service-will-sha...

Is really bothersome with Apple. I would like the ability to instead remove my data so they can not share it.

Plus still really bothers me that Apple handed over all their user data in China to the government.

"Campaign targets Apple over privacy betrayal for Chinese iCloud users"

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy...

Versus Google decided to leave China instead of giving up their users data.

I am more into the facts versus narratives and marketing.

[squeaky-clean]

It's right in Google's list:

> We collect information about your activity in our services, which we use to do things like recommend a YouTube video you might like. The activity information we collect may include:

And within that list is:

> People with whom you communicate or share content

I think this one little bullet point is way more vague than Apples and less limiting.

[jacksmith21006]

It is very different to have access to your data versus people you interact with.

Apple privacy agreement allows them to collect data on my wife, kids and others I interact with.

I am pretty OK with my data being at Google. But NOT ok with data being collected from people I interact with.

Then on top Google has their dashboard in the US with everything they collect in one place and the ability to remove or download.

We have nothing like it in the US with Apple and that really bothers me. What data do they have on my kids or friends since I interact with them?

I carry both an iPhone and a Pixel 2 XL. But several of my kids have iPhones so when on holiday will share my location in iMessages but have no idea what Apple is doing with the data. No transparency like Google.

Then the entire thing where Apple handed all their customer data over to the China government have a huge issue with. I like Google approach where the China government tried to hack Gmail accounts and Google indicated not acceptable and left the country.

Seems like Apple was willing to give up their users data for the mighty buck.

To be clear I do NOT think it is acceptable to be collecting data on people I interact with! These people should be able to control if their data is collected and their control of it getting collected should be respected!

Some might not want Apple collecting it and I should never get to say it is OK for others.

My brother for example is very, very against any company having his data. He does not use an iPhone. Do not think he uses any Apple products.