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by whatshisface 3029 days ago
You've just described the motivation for multiverse: Copenhagen has to stick in a concept of "measurement" that projects wavefunctions onto specific states. As a projection operator it's idempotent and many-to-one.

However, this mechanism is not necessarily a law of physics: we can explain all of the same results without it. So, deciding whether or not wavefunctions "actually" collapse is 100% philosophy.

1 comments

While you no longer need wave functions to collapse, you need universes to branch out. The latter interpretation doesn't seem "better" than the former as far as being a reasonable description of the real world goes. And of course for all practical purposes they are equivalent.
The universes don't need an additional mechanism in order to branch out, wavefunctions will already do this if they're left alone (to be clear about what I'm saying, I mean that if you isolated some particles in a box they would start doing multiverse). The natural behavior of wavefunctions is to do multiverse, and if you want something else you have to introduce an additional mechanism that collapses them.
And what does it mean for a few-particles isolated system to start doing multiverse? Cannot you just describe it with a wave function without any branching out? The standard interpretation of quantum mechanics doesn't have any issues with the evolution of an isolated system, it doesn't require continous wave function collapse.
The isoated particles will, according to accepted physics, do everything that MV says we are doing. The discrete branches are a textbook illustration; it's really more of a continuous thing. There's still only one wavefunction, it just behaves in a way that can be compared to branching.

In a nutshell the idea of multiverse is that the entire universe evolves as an isolated system, without any wavefunction collapse.

I know, but you need to reconcile that with the universe we observe where looking at the system will find it in a definite state and not in a superposition. What is the multiverse response precisely? How is "branching magic" an improvement over "collapsing magic"?
"Collapsing magic" consists of a projection that somehow happens during the time-evolution of the wavefunction, changing it from a superposition of eigenfunctions into one eigenfunction.

"Branching," to the extent that branching is a good word for what happens, already is known to be a behavior of wavefunctions: as a Gaussian pulse moves, it spreads out (due to dispersion inherent to the Schrodinger equation), and we as humans can arbitrarily call that branching. (But, like I said, it's continuous instead of discrete like the word branching would imply.)

So, what remains is to explain why we find the universe in a definite state, if it time-evolves into something other than specific eigenvalues. But, first, I'll ask you: what happens if you put a manned capsule inside of the isolated particle box, so that the person inside the capsule starts dispersing too?

Which existing mechanism gets you from that metaphysical multiverse to the physical universe?
The "multiverse" would be one big wavefunction (quite physical), and each "universe" would be a partition of the wavefunction in phase space. In this sense "multiverse" and "universe" would just be names for different parts of the wavefunction, like "The Rocky Mountains," and "Kona," would be names for features on a topo map.
Which basis is used to partition the wavefunction?

If you are going to tell me that it is according to the eigenvalues of the observable operator it's not that different from saying that there is a collapse on one of the eigenvalues of the measurement.

And the question remains for your "isolated particles in a box doing multiverse". How is the partition of the wavefunction done if there is no preferred basis?

Edit: Maybe in your interpretation the only "physical" thing is the universe described by its wave function and those infinite multiverses are just mathematical "projections" of that wavefunction. But then how can a mathematical operation without any physical substrate explain anything about the physical world?

Not every "fundamental" statement in physics is a natural law, for example the idea of grouping together like microstates into macrostates. We group together microstates into macrostates based on their macrovariables, which are selected to line up with emergent behavior that we observe on the macroscale. Temperature is well-motivated, but it's motivated in a different way than position.

In Multiverse, the projection-onto-eigenbases statistical rule (which guides the partition of the wavefunction into conceptual universes), is seen as being like thermodynamics: statistical, and motivated to compress vast microscopic information into variables that are nice for humans. Someone who thought MV was the right idea would say that projections were a way to calculate the fraction of universes in which something was true, and thereby your probability of ending up in one where it was. In that view, it's emergent, instead of fundamental - like temperature. This reduces the number of fundamental ideas necessary by allowing projection to emerge instead of being asserted.