[leesalminen]

After fighting with chat/phone support for months, I finally emailed jeff@amazon with a lengthy message recounting my recent shipping experiences with USPS. They removed USPS as an option from my account. Everything now comes from UPS/FedEx.

It may be worth noting that I spend roughly one order of magnitude more than their average prime customer annually (work equipment).

[Slansitartop]

Amazon will let you "deprioritize" any delivery service for your address EXCEPT Amazon Logistics. Any requests to deprioritize Amazon will get forwarded to a committee that will likely deny your request (of course, without telling you). It's an entirely different business process which I'm sure was deliberately made more difficult.

I have great experiences with USPS, UPS, and Fedex. Amazon Logistics has been terrible, and I suspect it's because of its GPS-driven gig-economy implementation.

[bonestamp2]

> I suspect it's because of its GPS-driven gig-economy implementation

Agreed, and specifically it's the yield they expect from their drivers. AMZL expects nearly double the deliveries from its drivers than UPS does. UPS has been doing this for decades across the globe, I would bet they've squeezed just about every last bit of efficiency out of their routes and process... so AMZL's expectations are outrageous, which leads to packages thrown from cars, packages found in ditches, etc. The drivers can't possibly complete their deliveries. The drivers are unhappy, the customers are unhappy and soon Amazon will be unhappy if they don't figure this out.

[Slansitartop]

> the customers are unhappy and soon Amazon will be unhappy if they don't figure this out.

Yeah, AMZL's awfulness opened my eyes to how uncompetitive Amazon's prices have become. The one-two punch of that broke my Amazon-first shopping habit.

[bonestamp2]

For some reason, my packages are rarely delivered by AMZL (although it does happen). But, I too have stopped my amazon-first habit... I noticed a couple shipments that I bought on amazon were actually drop shipped from walmart.com and target.com by the third party seller. Sure enough, I looked up the products on those sites and they were 15-20% cheaper.

It takes a little more time now, but I do a quick google price search before buying anything on amazon. Sometimes, if it's only a small difference, then it's worth the frictionless experience of buying through amazon, but as I create accounts on more and more sites, the frictional difference is becoming marginal.

[otakucode]

Having read a bit about the amazing logistics involved in modern package delivery, I am stunned. You can't beat UPS/FedEx. Not because they're superheroes, but because they've simply taken things to their logical conclusion. Unless you have rockets, drones, or some radically different form of transportation getting involved or something, you're not delivering more packages.

It stinks a bit of modern employers desires to ignore the fact that their employees are human beings. I expect any day now to hear of a big company tearing out all the bathrooms in their offices and cancelling lunch hours because it will 'improve efficiency.' If you don't want to deal with the basic truths of human employees, then you don't belong in business, period.

[bradleyjg]

I thought they had a the equivalent of a Service Oriented Architecture internally, where Amazon departments had to sell their services to other departments on an equal footing with outside vendors. That's what allowed them to make AWS available so easily, they already treated internal customers as if they were external.

Has that changed in recent years?

[lev99]

How do you apply that principal to the last mile problem?

To be fair, Amazon is fair at handling Customer Service complaints. I ordered a package with a scheduled 2 hour delivery window ({Fresh, Now}) and it came 2 hours late. The package needed a signature so I was at the delivery site for a total of six hours. My $100-$150 package expense was credited to my account after a short call to customer service.

[bradleyjg]

> How do you apply that principal to the last mile problem?

Isn't the answer obvious? Make the Amazon Logistics team compete on an even footing with UPS, USPS, and FedEx. If the retail team has process for one of its customers to blackball UPS because it had a bad experience with it, then they should have the same process to blackball Amazon Logistics. (I'm 'should' here to mean that would comport with the SOA style business structure, not to make an ultimate judgment on whether it is a good model for a business overall.)

[dawnerd]

I was able to have them remove amazon logistics after repetive drivers called me first thing in the morning demanding I meet them at the street because they couldn’t find the entrance to an apartment building.

[jerrysievert]

odd. after several repeated issues with amazon logistics (the worst was a package marked "out for delivery", then "business closed" for a full week of attempted deliveries - this was to a private residence up on a hill), I've only had packages shipped usps - it took several conversations with support staff, and after a few rounds of "free prime extensions", they stopped the shipments via amazon.

[Slansitartop]

> it took several conversations with support staff, and after a few rounds of "free prime extensions", they stopped the shipments via amazon.

That's what it takes. IIRC, they'll only consider deprioritizing AMZL if you've had 3 misdeliveries (by their reckoning) in the last 6 months. I haven't had the time to basically go to war with them to get them to stop, I just shifted my shopping habits instead.

[graeme]

Really, how do you deprioritize?

I'm in Canada, so it may be US only. I do know you can force them to use Canada Post if you enter a PO Box.

Also, amazon's delivery service has been excellent here, chiefly because they don't require signatures. Using any other courier means it often goes to some depot in the suburbs, which is a terrible policy for urban Montreal.

[trevyn]

To be fair, Amazon is directly able to influence the details of how Amazon Logistics works for your address, and they likely want to improve it, using customer feedback to do so. They have less leverage and incentive for other carriers.

[Slansitartop]

> and they likely want to improve it, using customer feedback to do so

I know, but the other carriers are already good, and I'm not super interested in being the guinea pig to train Amazon's. They're just brain-dead in so many different ways:

1) I'm not a dispatcher, I don't want to give directions to a driver or talk him to my address. That's Amazon's job.

2) I'm not Amazon's cartographer either, and it was super annoying to have to talk a phone rep through dropping a map pin on my place.

3) Every other carrier seems to be able to read the sign with delivery instructions at my door, why not Amazon? They ignore it so often I got tired of calling and complaining about that.

4) They should leave door-notes when there's a problem like every other carrier.

A lot of the stuff they need to improve on is simple stuff they could have easily learned by looking at the customer experience of their competitors, so I'm not really willing to cut them much slack. Especially since they force their carrier on me rather than giving me options.

[tdewitt]

I love you right now. I had no idea that was a thing. I've repeatedly asked that USPS not be used because I like my packages to make it on time and to the right place. USPS has only been more reliable than the Amazon service which misses about 50% of the time and tramples all over my lawn about 30% of the time. I offered video proof but they apparently don't need it. I wish I could go FedEx or UPS only.

[phil21]

> and tramples all over my lawn about 30% of the time

The more I read the comments the more I realize the complaints about delivery services really hit "corner cases" insanely fast. Like I would be livid if a driver didn't just leave a package at my door/driveway. I got it delivered because I don't want to deal with the hassle - if it gets stolen that's simply a cost of doing business. But I have friends who would be just as livid in the opposite direction.

I never would have considered someone cares about a delivery person walking over their lawn to drop a package off.

I think we're going to see more and more of these pain points as we migrate from "dedicated delivery guy you become friends with who knows all the idiosyncrasies of his customers" to "random dude in a Prius who had a couple hours to spare". And I'm completely convinced the latter is coming to the major delivery companies if they want to stay competitive - Fedex Ground is only a hop skip and a jump away from that already.

I imagine what's old will become new again as we re-invent the wheel for a solved problem of 100's of years. The mailbox. We'll simply see a standardized set of shipping lockers be available for both home install and shared use. I imagine within 15 years delivery services will refuse to deliver to anything but such a device. Much like how we saw the evolution of mail service in the US - went from "bob's farm in Springville, MA" to basic numbers, to streets, to zip codes, to requiring standardized mailboxes if you are to get delivery.

[freehunter]

It really is very context dependent, and can change rapidly. When I lived in one apartment, I would always prefer UPS as that driver would leave my packages at the leasing office across the parking lot, where FedEx would try once then make me drive to their location to pick it up, and USPS would try for several days in a row (so if I went to the post office to pick it up at lunch, it was always out on a truck) which meant my packages would come 3 days later than I expected.

Then I moved to another apartment in another town and I preferred USPS because they had keys to leave the package in basically a PO box in the entryway that was meant for packages. UPS left it at the leasing office which meant I had to walk a few blocks to get it and a few blocks back. FedEx would somehow get into the building and leave it sitting in front of my door, which is super not cool with an iPhone-sized package that says "T-Mobile" on the side.

Now that I have a house and I work from home, I prefer USPS because they come at 9am, whereas FedEx comes around noon and UPS isn't here until after 5pm. Even though USPS "tramples" my lawn, they're going to do that anyway to deliver mail, and I'd rather get my package earlier. Plus UPS and FedEx knock on the door which makes my dogs bark when I might be on a call with a client.

But even then, my postman would sometimes walk through my gate into my backyard and leave packages at the back door (I guess to keep them from being stolen?), which stopped pretty quick when he walked through the closed gate and came face to face with my very surprised and scared dogs. Don't ignore a "beware of dog" sign just because you didn't see the dog before you opened the gate. Luckily he just got cornered and not bitten.

Delivering packages with high customer satisfaction is not as easy as it sounds.

[losteverything]

I try hard to please all customers. Your phone number is on amazon labels. Often i text when there are issues. Communication is necessary for excellent customer service.

[dragonwriter]

> I never would have considered someone cares about a delivery person walking over their lawn to drop a package off.

I never would have considered that anyone in the US would fail to recognize the social conventions about the difference between landscaping and walkways and the acceptable uses of each. In places where people have lawns in the first place, they tend to prefer that people not noticeably walk on them (many don't care about the walking so much as any visible sign after the fact.)

[8note]

I'm very confused about the point of having a lawn is. if you're going to have something you cany walk on, why put in grass, one of the plants thats well adapted to be walked on

[dragonwriter]

To the extent that grass is well adapted to beig walked on, that just makes it easier to avoid leaving visible signs of walking on it.

But lawns are largely decorative, which is why people with lawns also tend to have more durable (e.g., concrete) walkways connecting the front entrance of the home to the sidewalk (if present) or curb.

[Retric]

Guy in a Prius actually costs more than a dedicated delivery truck for once a day delivery's. However, if you want same day delivery you are more or less forced to use the Prius model as you are stuck doing small batches of delivery's anyway.

Remember, the last mile cost for you is basically the cost from their last hop to you + the carrying your package to all the other stops. If the delivery guy is going to visit several houses on your street that's basically a few hundred feet on average.

[woolvalley]

If you give everyone same day although, wouldn't the order flow increase to truck sizes?

[extrapickles]

Maybe. That would make it harder to spread the truck to door cost over several orders.

[Slansitartop]

> I think we're going to see more and more of these pain points as we migrate from "dedicated delivery guy you become friends with who knows all the idiosyncrasies of his customers" to "random dude in a Prius who had a couple hours to spare". And I'm completely convinced the latter is coming to the major delivery companies if they want to stay competitive - Fedex Ground is only a hop skip and a jump away from that already.

That will be a sad day.

[leesalminen]

FedEx Home Delivery (Ground for residential) is on a route-franchise system as far as I can tell. The owner of the last route I was on was terrible- had to cancel Blue Apron because of it. Nothing would show up until 10-11 at night. My new route is awesome. Lady always has a smile and always shows up by 4 PM.

[maxerickson]

Living in a small town the delivery guys have been randos for a long time already.

[dllthomas]

An interesting approach might be a service where you could post your preferences, accessible to drivers of any service automatically when they're out to give you your package. Security implications would be nontrivial, though.

[reaperducer]

> I never would have considered someone cares about a delivery person walking over their lawn to drop a package off.

If they're wearing boots, or you have xeriscape, they can damage the irrigation system just an inch or two under the surface.

[Feniks]

I always let packages ship to the local supermarket.

Actually feel bad for delivery guys who have to go to every single adress when its much more efficient to collect stuff at a central point. And how many people are not at home during delivery hours?

[icebraining]

You feel bad for delivery workers, because they have work to do? I'm not sure they feel the same way.

[Feniks]

Actually I'm sure they do. You think its fun running around and climbing stairs for 8 hours a day? Oh and if you're not home they have to come back. For free.

[leesalminen]

Just make a good case and email that Jeff address. My letter was well composed and not accusatory. Tried to be as friendly as possible. Even offered my cell # if they wanted to follow up.

[ryanlol]

You can do this almost immediately via live chat by just asking the CS rep to make a ticket requesting that $carrier be deprioritized for future deliveries to your address.

Emailing jeff@ tends to get you directly to the best and brightest of Amazons support team, so it's a good option too (albeit a bit slower).

[Slansitartop]

> You can do this almost immediately via live chat by just asking the CS rep to make a ticket requesting that $carrier be deprioritized for future deliveries to your address.

Doesn't work for Amazon Logistics. I tried a couple times a few months ago, and my ticket kept getting denied. Deprioitizing AMZL_US appears to be an entirely different business process than other carriers, as the rep I spoke to didn't know how to do it at first.

They might not deny your request if you claim your home is a prison, but didn't try that route.

[ghostbrainalpha]

>> They might not deny your request if you claim your home is a prison, but didn't try that route.

Pure genius. I think I could believable get away with saying my house is a 1/2 way house for people getting out of prison. And there are stresses on the delivery driver that should only fall on a full time professional.

[Slansitartop]

> And there are stresses on the delivery driver that should only fall on a full time professional.

IIRC, the three deprioritization justifications the rep had were:

1. Prison, 2. Military Base, 3. Three failed deliveries over the last 6 months.

I assume it's just a prison policy thing. I know no one besides USPS can deliver to AFO/FPO address (which are military I think), so maybe the same's true for prisons.

[extrapickles]

Places other than USPS can deliver to places on military bases provided you have a “physical” address vs a AFO/FPO. However, the delivery company and driver needs to be registered to deliver on that particular base. AFO/FPO addresses are USPS only as they are more of a CNAME/pointer for the persons physical address and can involve going to combat zones or ships at sea.

[Slansitartop]

> However, the delivery company and driver needs to be registered to deliver on that particular base.

I bet this is Amazon's issue due to their gig-employment model. If they're employing randos from the internet, it's unlikely that any military base has approved any of them as drivers.

[jsoc815]

At times, emailing Jeff is the only option. Recently did so after a chat rep 'gave me incorrect info' that didn't work and then literally told me to "ask a friend."

[leconteur]

What is that Jeff address thing?

[adventured]

Jeff Bezos's personal email address.

[leesalminen]

It used to be, anyway. These days it’s a shortcut to the top tier support team. I believe I spoke with Austin on the “Executive Support Team”.

[fnbr]

He claims in interviews [1] that he reads everything that goes through there (but obviously doesn't reply).

[1]: https://www.recode.net/2016/6/1/11826718/jeff-bezos-amazon-f...