[ablomen]

Coming from a country with cushy laws on the side of employees etc (the Netherlands), and as a male, I can say that I can really identify with the opening paragraphs of this piece.

When I started as all round IT guy 10 years ago it felt like a dream, getting payed for doing what I was doing anyway. And the first 4 years of turning in to a web developer was fun and challenging.

But after a while the shine wears off and getting up every day to make software for clients you are not interested in, with deadlines and promises that where not made by your self, it just drains you.

After finding my own solution (starting up a beer brewery) another thing dawned, sitting behind a computer hours every day for work just is not good for your body or your mind. The money is great, the work can be fun, but at least for me, the best thing I have ever done is starting something totally non-IT (or other office job) related.

[wsc981]

My dream would be to have a house in a tropical country with a nice big garden and inside the house have a nice office. Inside the office I would work part-time for clients, part-time for myself (on games). Or perhaps only for myself, if my own projects would provide me enough income. Additionally, the garden would be used as a farm. I would divide my time between farming groceries and fruits and work on some apps or games. I would also like to have plenty of time to spend with my girlfriend and daughter. Do enjoyable things together often, because you never really know when you will die (or your significant other, or your children) - so you really have to try to make most of the little time you have in this life.

As a software developer it's probably easier to achieve your dreams in life compared to many other professions. When living in a country like The Netherlands you can get decent pay as a freelancer and safe money for future dreams.

I've already made the first step to achieve my ideal work/life balance. I am building a house in a tropical country right now. Currently the garden is small, but I am sure in the future I can buy some land from neighbours that will serve as a nice farm. Since the standards of life are lower in this tropical country (average income around 500 EUR / month), it means I can work less if I find a decent paying online job and hopefully can find better work/life balance, while still earning plenty of money for good hospital care (if needed) or pension.

Most people are not able to make these kinds of choices. Being a software developer is really a luxury. Because you _can_ really have more freedom if you choose to.

[brailsafe]

In only a vaguely related tangent, was it at all challenging to immigrate to the country? I've been thinking about these sorts of possibilities but for the most part there always seems to be some challenging aspect to long-term residence. I'm from Canada, and am thinking about various countries in Europe and the tropics.

[wsc981]

My emigration will happen officially next year. For me there would be several ways to make this emigration work:

- I could get married to my girlfriend, this would give me a marriage visa.

- I can pay for a special type of visa with a certain duration (choices are 5, 10, 20 years). A 5-year visa would cost around 10.000 EUR or 8 EUR / day and gives some extra benefits, like yearly health check-ups at a major hospital, free limousine service near airport, preferred treatment at airport (not wait in long queues), legal help, etc...

- From 50+ years one can get a retirement visa (but I am only 36 years old, so this doesn't apply to me).

- I can work for a company inside the country and get a work visa. Easily do-able as a software developer, but obviously will earn a lot less compared to North Western Europe. But earning 2.500 EUR a month as software dev is still a lot, about 5x the average income.

- At least one company allows you to freelance and they handle taxes for you and give you a work permit. But all invoices should be handled through this company and they take a 30% cut.

There are some other ways as well, like an investor visa if you invest a large amount of money in the country.

I will go for the second option for now, pay for the 5-year visa. After 5 years I could extend this with a 10-year visa. And from then on I can use a retirement visa.

[brailsafe]

Thanks for the overview. I wasn't aware there were purely transactional visas like that.

Having explored options for a variety of countries, as a software developer without a degree there aren't a lot of options outside marriage, investment, and ancestry.

[mclightning]

which country is this?

[wsc981]

Thailand. The paid visa plan is called Thailand Elite[0]. Apparently there should also be some sort of new visa that could be useful for digital nomads introduced in 2018 [1]. The company that can provide a work permit in exchange if 30% of your invoice is called IGLU [2].

By the way, after staying 5 or 10 year inside the country, one can apply for a Thai citizenship, which is something I will consider [3].

---

[0]: https://thailandelite.org

[1]: https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/997836-4-year-professio...

[2]: https://iglu.net

[3]: https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/121353-story-of-my-thai...

[fbonetti]

Thank you for sharing this. While it's good to be appreciative of our relative privilege in this market compared to other labor markets, it's nice to hear people admit that being a software engineer does nothing for your social or emotional growth. Sitting in front of screen day after day with little social interaction or meaningful collaboration takes a toll on you, no matter how much you're getting paid.

My exit plan is to become a landlord. I love fixing houses and there's something very satisfying about being able to physically experience the product of your work (unlike software, which is mostly abstract). I will probably need to work for another 5 years in order to build up enough rental income in order to justify quitting this industry, but it will be worth it. I would be absolutely miserable if I had to write software for the rest of my life.

[alistproducer2]

See my comment (in my history). I'm literally doing the same thing. Piece of advice: Max out your 401k every year and use a ROBS (rollover for business startup) to fund it tax free. It's complicated but totally worth it.

[fbonetti]

I've heard that taking that approach comes with a lot of a rules on how you can use your money. For example, if you make a profit from rent, you can't take it out in cash (it has to be reinvested into the business). Also, if you want to make an improvement to your property, you are required to hire someone to do the work instead of doing it yourself.

I could be totally wrong about this because I haven't done a lot of research. My plan is to use regular cash for down payments on traditional mortgages. I haven't decided what to do with my 401k yet, but I definitely want to use it even if that means paying the fee to pull it out in cash.

[alistproducer2]

Before you commit to paying the early withdrawl taxes and penalties, do what i did; hire a lawyer that deals with erisa law. The legal advice I've been given doesn't match up with what you're saying, but I will certainly ask about it in my next conference.

edit: here is some info, but still make sure you get a lawyer. Also regarding taking the money out, it's true that you can't just spend it. This is due to the necessary structure of the business - a c corp. You can, however, take a salary once your business becomes profitable.

https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/3441/52232-starting-a-re...

https://www.mysolo401k.net/401k-business-financing/

[fiftyacorn]

The number of ex-dev's i know who have started breweries is pretty high. Its like a career progression - software developer 10 years -> start micro-brewery

[ablomen]

Haha yes a lot of breweries have been started by IT people over here too. To be fair, brewing includes some science, a lot of self learning and creativity, so there is some overlap there.

Not to mention the fact that until recently (over here at least) most beer festivals looked quite a bit like open source conventions, just with different stickers. And the "beer nerds" (including me) I know are just as in to beer as I was in to computers.

[sjg007]

I think in craft beer their is definitely a taste race going on. In the beginning every American ipa tastes like Sierra Nevada.... now you get multiple styles and hoppiness. I’ve found myself unhappy with the maltiness of some craft beers now.

[amyjess]

I'm glad that the obsession with IPAs has started to fade some.

The craft beer scene in Dallas has exploded recently, and somehow the local scene had ended up focusing on milk stouts. That's a wonderful thing IMO; I can't stand the taste of hops, and I detest IPAs, so I consider myself blessed to live in a city where the local craft beer scene cares mostly about creating something thick, dark, and sweet.

[fiftyacorn]

My degree was chemical engineering and brewing/distilling was part of that. So im the opposite and a developer now