[PeanutCurry]

I realize I'm risking downvotes with this one, but I think it's worth acknowledging. While Charlottesville was a tragedy, and the time is not right imo to discuss it with the public at large precisely because it was a tragedy and people are still mourning, the event was overall as peaceful as any severely political protest ever is. The deaths and injuries that occurred should not be simply discounted as if the people are simply disposable, but the majority of activists on both sides did not cause those deaths and injuries. Unless there is a major point of information that I am ignorant of, the driver who has catapulted the event into the national spotlight acted essentially in isolation even if his ideology was not held in isolation at the event. He acted heinously, and now is not the time for taking easy solace, but I think there's some merit in the reality that by and large people on both sides were able to demonstrate with the -relative- peacefulness of a generic controversial American protest with orbital counter protests.

[officemonkey]

Many groups radicalize "lone wolves" precisely to do the things that they want done, but want to keep their hands clean.

You saw this particularly during the 90s, when people were radicalized to attack and kill abortion doctors. It was rarely called terrorism, but the tactics were the same.

The folks who sent hoax anthrax packages to Planned Parenthood offices where mostly lone actors, picking up on their group's radicalizing messages.

One could also say Eric Rudolph and Timothy McVeigh were "lone wolves" in that they believed the radicalizing talk, but acted essentially alone.

[leereeves]

Is there any evidence this attack was planned or inspired by an ideology, rather than simply an act of rage or fear?

[officemonkey]

If you're an avowed Hitler fan at a #UniteTheRight alt-right rally, and you drive multiple blocks at high speed into a crowd of people, and then drive multiple blocks in reverse at a similar rate of speed in order to evade capture, I think there's enough room to indict.

[ygaf]

If that's what the driver did, I'm sorry for my ignorance (different poster).

[ygaf]

This is why I couldn't believe that terrorism was invoked. (for a second, before accepting the unscrupulous cleverness of it) Terrorism is when a message is sent to the people at large, not what happens between warring protestors. Terrorism is what Theresa May wants to tap internet communications for.

[ygaf]

Replying to matt, not sure why his post was flagged (aside from veering off my topic):

>People protesting against Nazis aren't... >That means...

You theorise a lot about the opposing side on this one occasion, that is contrary to what we've seen for a year from american political clashes.

>But anyway... The definition of terrorism is politically motivated violence. Not calling this terrorism, when it's using literally the same method as ISIS has been using in the last years, is starting to make it really hard to believe that all these free speech advocates aren't just trying to hide their sympathies for the skinheads they're defending.

Drunk drivers "use the same method" to kill people. What's really depressing is the fact that lights a bulb in people's head that says terrorism. It means they don't have actual definitions of words in their heads. I'm not a nazi sympathiser at all, thank you. And believe any of those at Charlottesville truly concerned with white heritage and statues failed themselves by association (nevermind carrying torches..).

[Shivetya]

to me the key difference is terrorism is premeditated. this violence was the act of one individual and is blown out of proportion.

what was not communicated is that only these "alt-right" groups had permission to march and demonstrate and the police were told to not intervene when counter groups who assembled in similar manner without permission were allowed free reign to incite the issue.

I am all for letting these "alt-right/left" groups march to their hearts content provided their faces are visible. it gives them an outlet and lets the rest of us know who they are. so while their message may be repugnant they have the right to march.

the ACLU recent preening/posturing/etc is shameful compared to their past actions. far too many groups are piling on declaring how they are against violence which is non declaration. Of course violence cannot be supported.

the real danger is if we force these groups underground that some of their members may act out with much more terrible violence.

[croon]

> what was not communicated is that only these "alt-right" groups had permission to march and demonstrate and the police were told to not intervene when counter groups who assembled in similar manner without permission were allowed free reign to incite the issue.

It could be because both of those statements are lies. You might need to rethink which outlet you go to for news.

Although one of those outlets happens to be the POTUS, which is unfortunate.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/aug/...

http://www.snopes.com/were-police-told-stand-down-charlottes...

[mschuster91]

> I am all for letting these "alt-right/left" groups march to their hearts content provided their faces are visible.

You do know what happens once neo-Nazis get photos of your face? People are getting harrassed online, then offline, rounded up, beaten and occasionally murdered. Masking is self-protection.

And yes there IS a difference between lefties and Nazis masking up: Lefties, generally, don't kill. Worst you get as a Nazi is a beating. Nazis do kill (50 or 68 alone due to terrorist attacks since 9/11, per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism#cite_ref-...).

Source: know a couple "outed" activists, got my face distributed by a local Nazi party leader on Youtube.

[leereeves]

> People are getting...rounded up, beaten and occasionally murdered

Source?

Neo-Nazis rounding up and beating Americans is such an outrageous story that, if it were true, every media outlet in America would be reporting it.

[matt4077]

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.3410062.15027179...

That photo shows a mob of white supremacists with sticks, beating a black man who is on the ground.

[leereeves]

That's from Charlottesville, where two violent groups fought each other. I'm asking about people being "rounded up".

[mschuster91]

> if it were true, every media outlet in America would be reporting it.

LOL as if the mainstream press would care about right-wing violence. As long as it can be swept under the rug or it's only minorities who suffer, they don't care - simply because the majority of customers are white men, and they are not interested if PoC or minorities get hit. Charlottesville only got attention because the terror victim was white, what happened the day before at night or with the PoC nearly beaten to death in a garage was shadowed by the murder.

There are many sources proving my point, when it comes to the facts. For example:

- The number of violent attacks on U.S. soil inspired by far-right ideology has spiked since the beginning of this century, rising from a yearly avarage of 70 attacks in the 1990s to a yearly avarage of more than 300 since 2001. These incidents have grown even more common since President Donald Trump’s election. (per http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/right-wing-extremists-mil...)

- They and untold thousands like them are the extremists who hide among us, the right-wing militants who, since 2002, have killed more people in the United States than jihadis have. In that time, according to New America, a Washington think tank, Islamists launched nine attacks that murdered 45, while the right-wing extremists struck 18 times, leaving 48 dead. (per http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/right-wing-extremists-mil...)

[lagadu]

> And yes there IS a difference between lefties and Nazis masking up: Lefties, generally, don't kill.

I'm sorry, you're saying that you're ok with beatings and violence as long as nobody dies?

[matt4077]

Is it really that hard to understand?

These nazis/white supremacists/etc glorify the holocaust, meaning they want to, once again, kill all those they consider inferior: jews/blacks/muslims.

Those protesting against them are the people that think it's not a great idea to kill all the jews/blacks/muslims. Because being anti-Nazi doesn't make you a communist terrorist or whatever.

That really shouldn't be so hard to understand, considering the US once fought a war against those people whose flag is now making a comeback. And I really didn't get the feeling that all those GIs were anarchists and communists.

[mschuster91]

Additionally, I'd wager that many antifascists would rather not use violence and rather have police take care about that matter.

However, even flying f..ing Nazi swastika flags and thereby create a sphere of threat for minorities (because, what else than "I will kill you when you come here" does a Swastika flag say to a Jew?!) is legal in the US - so in order to create a safe space for minorities of all kinds, Nazis must be driven away. And yes, this includes violence in some occasions (e.g. at Charlottesville, where a gang of white supremacists nearly beat a PoC to death).

If anyone is not fine with Antifa protecting minorities, then by all means lobby your politicians that Nazi symbolism, hate speech and other ways of threatening minorities gets banned. Until this happens, either stand in yourself when you see minorities threatened or at least don't stand in the way of those willing to protect minorities when no one else wants to!

[macintux]

http://www.snopes.com/were-police-told-stand-down-charlottes...

[leereeves]

[Removed mistaken post]

[icebraining]

Snopes does cite the tweet, and does say there were brawls and that some people blame the police for not having intervened enough. Which facts have they missed?

[leereeves]

My mistake; I shouldn't post while busy with other things.

[leereeves]

There was a lot more violence than the car attack. The state of emergency was declared before that attack.