[Shivetya]

to me the key difference is terrorism is premeditated. this violence was the act of one individual and is blown out of proportion.

what was not communicated is that only these "alt-right" groups had permission to march and demonstrate and the police were told to not intervene when counter groups who assembled in similar manner without permission were allowed free reign to incite the issue.

I am all for letting these "alt-right/left" groups march to their hearts content provided their faces are visible. it gives them an outlet and lets the rest of us know who they are. so while their message may be repugnant they have the right to march.

the ACLU recent preening/posturing/etc is shameful compared to their past actions. far too many groups are piling on declaring how they are against violence which is non declaration. Of course violence cannot be supported.

the real danger is if we force these groups underground that some of their members may act out with much more terrible violence.

[croon]

> what was not communicated is that only these "alt-right" groups had permission to march and demonstrate and the police were told to not intervene when counter groups who assembled in similar manner without permission were allowed free reign to incite the issue.

It could be because both of those statements are lies. You might need to rethink which outlet you go to for news.

Although one of those outlets happens to be the POTUS, which is unfortunate.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/aug/...

http://www.snopes.com/were-police-told-stand-down-charlottes...

[mschuster91]

> I am all for letting these "alt-right/left" groups march to their hearts content provided their faces are visible.

You do know what happens once neo-Nazis get photos of your face? People are getting harrassed online, then offline, rounded up, beaten and occasionally murdered. Masking is self-protection.

And yes there IS a difference between lefties and Nazis masking up: Lefties, generally, don't kill. Worst you get as a Nazi is a beating. Nazis do kill (50 or 68 alone due to terrorist attacks since 9/11, per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism#cite_ref-...).

Source: know a couple "outed" activists, got my face distributed by a local Nazi party leader on Youtube.

[leereeves]

> People are getting...rounded up, beaten and occasionally murdered

Source?

Neo-Nazis rounding up and beating Americans is such an outrageous story that, if it were true, every media outlet in America would be reporting it.

[matt4077]

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.3410062.15027179...

That photo shows a mob of white supremacists with sticks, beating a black man who is on the ground.

[leereeves]

That's from Charlottesville, where two violent groups fought each other. I'm asking about people being "rounded up".

[mschuster91]

> "two violent groups"

Are you seriously parroting Donald Trump right now? The lefties at Charlottesville were peaceful (and in those cases where it did turn violent, the Nazis began with assaulting). Most weren't even Antifa, they were ordinary Charlottesville citizens protesting against Nazis from all over the USA taking their city over!

[leereeves]

Some of the "lefties" were peaceful.

Some of them came armed with pepper spray, urine bombs, baseball bats, shields, helmets, etc.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/08/12/pr...

Some of them attacked reporters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jufZItpL3o0

A NY Times reporter said:

> The hard left seemed as hate-filled as alt-right. I saw club-wielding "antifa" beating white nationalists being led out of the park

https://twitter.com/SherylNYT/status/896575560650035200

It's deeply unfortunate that peaceful people were caught in the middle of that, but both sides share responsibility for the violence.

[mschuster91]

> if it were true, every media outlet in America would be reporting it.

LOL as if the mainstream press would care about right-wing violence. As long as it can be swept under the rug or it's only minorities who suffer, they don't care - simply because the majority of customers are white men, and they are not interested if PoC or minorities get hit. Charlottesville only got attention because the terror victim was white, what happened the day before at night or with the PoC nearly beaten to death in a garage was shadowed by the murder.

There are many sources proving my point, when it comes to the facts. For example:

- The number of violent attacks on U.S. soil inspired by far-right ideology has spiked since the beginning of this century, rising from a yearly avarage of 70 attacks in the 1990s to a yearly avarage of more than 300 since 2001. These incidents have grown even more common since President Donald Trump’s election. (per http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/right-wing-extremists-mil...)

- They and untold thousands like them are the extremists who hide among us, the right-wing militants who, since 2002, have killed more people in the United States than jihadis have. In that time, according to New America, a Washington think tank, Islamists launched nine attacks that murdered 45, while the right-wing extremists struck 18 times, leaving 48 dead. (per http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/right-wing-extremists-mil...)

[lagadu]

> And yes there IS a difference between lefties and Nazis masking up: Lefties, generally, don't kill.

I'm sorry, you're saying that you're ok with beatings and violence as long as nobody dies?

[matt4077]

Is it really that hard to understand?

These nazis/white supremacists/etc glorify the holocaust, meaning they want to, once again, kill all those they consider inferior: jews/blacks/muslims.

Those protesting against them are the people that think it's not a great idea to kill all the jews/blacks/muslims. Because being anti-Nazi doesn't make you a communist terrorist or whatever.

That really shouldn't be so hard to understand, considering the US once fought a war against those people whose flag is now making a comeback. And I really didn't get the feeling that all those GIs were anarchists and communists.

[mschuster91]

Additionally, I'd wager that many antifascists would rather not use violence and rather have police take care about that matter.

However, even flying f..ing Nazi swastika flags and thereby create a sphere of threat for minorities (because, what else than "I will kill you when you come here" does a Swastika flag say to a Jew?!) is legal in the US - so in order to create a safe space for minorities of all kinds, Nazis must be driven away. And yes, this includes violence in some occasions (e.g. at Charlottesville, where a gang of white supremacists nearly beat a PoC to death).

If anyone is not fine with Antifa protecting minorities, then by all means lobby your politicians that Nazi symbolism, hate speech and other ways of threatening minorities gets banned. Until this happens, either stand in yourself when you see minorities threatened or at least don't stand in the way of those willing to protect minorities when no one else wants to!

[leereeves]

Antifa uses violence all the time.

They were violent at the presidential inauguration, the G20 summit, and in attempts to prevent countless people from speaking at colleges. Please don't try to pretend they only fight Nazis.

[macintux]

http://www.snopes.com/were-police-told-stand-down-charlottes...

[leereeves]

[Removed mistaken post]

[icebraining]

Snopes does cite the tweet, and does say there were brawls and that some people blame the police for not having intervened enough. Which facts have they missed?

[leereeves]

My mistake; I shouldn't post while busy with other things.