[webtechgal]

One point that caught my eye is:

"Linux enthusiasts perpetually claim that this year is the year that Linux will finally make headway into the desktop for the everyday user — but it never has and never will."

I guess the author has a (much coveted) crystal ball.

[metalliqaz]

Oh stop it. Is anyone seriously expecting Linux to take over the desktop anymore? Ubuntu is embedded in Windows now for cripes sakes! Be happy with the world's servers and cell phones.

[yellowapple]

The closest thing to a "Year of the Linux Desktop" is the growing popularity of ChromeOS. Nowhere near rivaling Windows, sure, but not entirely obscure either, and certainly not with a "steep learning curve" (come on MakeUseOf; it ain't 2005 anymore, you can cool it with the tired "Linux is hard to use" crap).

[freehunter]

The Linux systems that get brought up in these arguments have a lot of non-default helper programs that obfuscate the underlying OS and remove really any reason to be using Linux in the first place other than it's free and it runs on everything.

I mean, yeah Android is nice. And it technically runs Linux. But so does my wifi router... just because I plugged it in and logged into the web interface doesn't mean I can, with a straight face, claim that I am a Linux user.

Does having a laptop that boots straight into a browser without showing anything lower level than that really count as Linux? Does it really make me a Linux user?

[BlackLotus89]

Yes it does. What kind of question is that? With the same logic you can claim that no Windows user that doesn't know how to use "obscure" Windows tools is a Windows user. What you are talking about is a "Power User" or admin. Fuck when every Desktop would run ChromeOS would you still claim it wasn't the year of the Linux desktop? Ubuntu tries to hide every "linuxy" aspect and make it user friendly. So people using Ubuntu and not using any of the command line tools aren't Linux users?

Making the choice running a system makes you a user of that system. If the choice is conscious or not is unimportant. Most people only click on "the internet" or office and it doesn't make them less Windows users. Or do you need to be aware of what you are to be it?

[freehunter]

The difference is, Windows is Windows. It's a full OS from tip to tail. Linux is a kernel, one that doesn't do a whole lot by itself. If you installed Linux, you'd be very disappointed. But even installing Ubuntu is different IMO than using Android or ChromeOS or a car infotainment system that may technically be based on Linux but the end user would never be able to tell.

Likewise if I've used an ATM or a mall kiosk that was based on Windows, I'd hardly call myself a Windows user. I'm not talking about an admin or a power user. I'm talking about someone being aware at a basic level what kind of system they're using. My grandma knows she's using Windows.

[BlackLotus89]

The problem we both have is when we define someone as a Linux or Windows "user". In my opinion what counts for the year of the Linux Desktop isn't if anybody _sees_ themself as Linux user, but rather if someone actually uses Linux.

I think if we are evaluating what the market share of an os it doesn't matter how it hides it presence. ATMs still are vulnerable to Windows exploits and Linux PCs for Linux vulns and it doesn't need someone to identify with something to be it. It's just the difference between calling oneself a * user and being counted/seen as one.

> Does having a laptop that boots straight into a browser without showing anything lower level than that really count as Linux? Does it really make me a Linux user?

You maybe don't see yourself as one, but you are one. I don't think my Grandma knew she was using Windows and it doesn't matter if she knew.

[cestith]

A True Scotsman can boot his kernel from the front panel when the boot loader get mangled. That's what kind of question it is.

[bittermang]

> Does having a laptop that boots straight into a browser without showing anything lower level than that really count as Linux? Does it really make me a Linux user?

That's the attitude that keeps Year of the Linux [whatever] from happening. Just because you haven't recompiled your kernel to get some odd library working doesn't mean you're not a Linux user. The idea of a true Linux user is a fallacy in league with there being no true Scotsmen.

[freehunter]

How about the other example I stated about my wifi router? It runs Linux, I plugged it in, and I've connected to its web admin page. Am I now a Linux user? My TV runs Android, am I a Linux user?

I never said you had to compile a kernel to be a Linux user... I'm just not sure if an appliance really counts.

[squeaky-clean]

> That's the attitude that keeps Year of the Linux [whatever] from happening.

I don't think it's the attitude stopping it. I think it's that ChromeOS has a 0.82% market share and other Linux distros have a 1.66% market share, while Windows and Mac make up 95%

http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/

[yellowapple]

"non-default helper programs"

Define "default". From the perspective of a user buying a Chromebook, the "helper programs" are very much the default.

Additionally, "helper programs that obfuscate the underlying OS" is pretty much the whole point of a desktop environment. I fail to see what point you're trying to make there.

"I mean, yeah Android is nice. And it technically runs Linux."

Which is really all that matters. We're talking about the Year of the Linux Desktop, not the Year of the KDE Desktop or the Year of the GNU Desktop.

Not that Android is (usually) a desktop OS, but whatever.

"But so does my wifi router... just because I plugged it in and logged into the web interface doesn't mean I can, with a straight face, claim that I am a Linux user."

Sure you can. You're not a Linux desktop user, but you still use Linux in some capacity rather than, say, VxWorks or IOS.

"Does having a laptop that boots straight into a browser without showing anything lower level than that really count as Linux? Does it really make me a Linux user?"

I think it does. It'd be no different from being a Windows user who only uses a web browser.

[freehunter]

>I fail to see what point you're trying to make there

Do you? Because it doesn't seem like it. I didn't exactly stutter.

[yellowapple]

You don't have to stutter for your point to be logically inconsistent to the point of incomprehensibility. Lorem ipsum is nonsensical faux-Latin regardless of any speech impediments.

If ChromeOS or Android don't count as "real" Linux desktops because (aside from Android not usually being used for desktops) they abstract away the "Linux" part, then by your exact same logic, any Linux distro that ships with a full-fledged desktop environment is not a "real" Linux desktop, either, since they by design abstract away the Linux part. In fact, literally no actual operating system could possibly be a Linux desktop unless we want to go ahead and turn all user software into kernel modules, since literally anything in userspace is by definition an abstraction on top of Linux.

Linux is one component in a fully-featured operating system. Exactly which userland happens to be running on top of it does not change one's status as a Linux user.

Meanwhile, pretty much every desktop environment for Linux (except maybe recent versions of GNOME) is not exclusive to Linux, so by the logic you've presented, there's literally no such thing as a "real" Linux desktop.

[blacksmith_tb]

To be fair, ChromeOS has a proper shell[1], you can ssh from it, etc. (of course you may be able to shell into your router, too, hopefully not via telnet...).

1: https://www.howtogeek.com/170648/10-commands-included-in-chr...

[squeaky-clean]

If you want to do anything "linuxey" with a Chromebook, don't you need to use something like Crouton and install a whole different distribution anyways?

Is it even possible or simple to install ChromeOS on a Pi? Most projects related to ChromeOS on Pi seem to be dead. There's FlintOS, which had it's last update last month, but in the release notes:

> We have disabled the root password briefly for improved security, subsequent releases will have a better system to maintain security and allow users root access if activated.

There's also ChromiumRPI, which hasn't been updated in a year and does not and will not support wifi.

Also as far as I can tell, none of them can play Netflix unless you're on a real Chromebook. I'd say it's fairly "hard to use".

[efskap]

This doesn't require crouton or anything like that.

https://skycocker.github.io/chromebrew/

[squeaky-clean]

Thanks for the info! (I haven't touched ChromeOS in a long time). Still kinda supports my point that ChromeOS does have a steep learning curve if you want to do anything outside of web browsing.

[LamaOfRuin]

Define 'linuxey'.

For most people, the realization of the year of the linux desktop would involve it hiding anything traditionally linuxey away from the user.

[lllr_finger]

To your implied question about Linux on a Chromebook - you can skip all that Crouton stuff if you flash a special bios. I've got Ubuntu Server with Xmonad on mine as a daily driver and it's been a smooth experience.

[bitwize]

Oh, psh! You don't need to do $COMPLICATED_THING! You can skip all that by doing $INSANELY_COMPLICATED_THING instead!

This is why you fail, Linux.

[aplummer]

Difference between "never will" emphasised and "likely never will"

[metalliqaz]

I'm afraid I'm not able to discern your meaning from that little snippet, but...

I am willing to go on record now as saying "never will". It hasn't happened yet and the desktop is already dying. The mobile space is the juggernaut now and through Android, Linux is the biggest player.

[aqsalose]

>the desktop is already dying.

I once heard a joke that the Year of the Linux Desktop will be when the Linux users are the only desktop users left.

[flukus]

In what way is the desktop dying?