[BlackLotus89]

Yes it does. What kind of question is that? With the same logic you can claim that no Windows user that doesn't know how to use "obscure" Windows tools is a Windows user. What you are talking about is a "Power User" or admin. Fuck when every Desktop would run ChromeOS would you still claim it wasn't the year of the Linux desktop? Ubuntu tries to hide every "linuxy" aspect and make it user friendly. So people using Ubuntu and not using any of the command line tools aren't Linux users?

Making the choice running a system makes you a user of that system. If the choice is conscious or not is unimportant. Most people only click on "the internet" or office and it doesn't make them less Windows users. Or do you need to be aware of what you are to be it?

[freehunter]

The difference is, Windows is Windows. It's a full OS from tip to tail. Linux is a kernel, one that doesn't do a whole lot by itself. If you installed Linux, you'd be very disappointed. But even installing Ubuntu is different IMO than using Android or ChromeOS or a car infotainment system that may technically be based on Linux but the end user would never be able to tell.

Likewise if I've used an ATM or a mall kiosk that was based on Windows, I'd hardly call myself a Windows user. I'm not talking about an admin or a power user. I'm talking about someone being aware at a basic level what kind of system they're using. My grandma knows she's using Windows.

[BlackLotus89]

The problem we both have is when we define someone as a Linux or Windows "user". In my opinion what counts for the year of the Linux Desktop isn't if anybody _sees_ themself as Linux user, but rather if someone actually uses Linux.

I think if we are evaluating what the market share of an os it doesn't matter how it hides it presence. ATMs still are vulnerable to Windows exploits and Linux PCs for Linux vulns and it doesn't need someone to identify with something to be it. It's just the difference between calling oneself a * user and being counted/seen as one.

> Does having a laptop that boots straight into a browser without showing anything lower level than that really count as Linux? Does it really make me a Linux user?

You maybe don't see yourself as one, but you are one. I don't think my Grandma knew she was using Windows and it doesn't matter if she knew.

[freehunter]

In that case Linux won years ago. Nearly everyone has seen a billboard or mall kiosk or in-flight entertainment system running on Linux, nearly everyone has connected to a web page running on a Linux server, many people run Android-powered TVs. Hell, my dog can push the ice dispenser on my Samsung smart fridge, she's a Linux user too.

Debate's over. If you don't have to know you're using Linux, if you don't have to see yourself as a Linux user, if all you have to do is be exposed to a system that incidentally runs Linux in some odd capacity for it to be considered Linux on the desktop, that's it. Linux won.

Bad news for everyone who is anti-Microsoft but visits Stack Overflow which runs on Windows Server... wonder if those people are aware that they're now considered Windows users?

[cestith]

A True Scotsman can boot his kernel from the front panel when the boot loader get mangled. That's what kind of question it is.